Tuesday 7 May 2013

First revamp, council cuts & battle moves to Thornhill?

Southampton City Council's bus subsidy cuts kick in from 30th June with the withdrawal of First S1 and Velvet S2.

First are also revamping their own network on the same day. The X2 to Millbrook is withdrawn. All of their remaining routes in the city get a new timetable and some get a route change. With the council cuts, this is likely to mean fewer buses in the evenings and on Sundays.

Three new routes are announced though:
11 City Centre to Weston. This is probably a replacement for either a curtailment or rerouting of the 1 and 1A on that side of the city. Not to be confused with the old 11 to Marchwood and Hythe, which ends on 26th May.
12 Lordshill to Townhill Park (via Shirley and Bitterne). I'm guessing this is just a renumbered 2, but I could be wrong.
13 City Centre to Thornhill (via Bitterne). This looks like it could be a head-on attack against Bluestar 18.

Full details as we get them.

26 comments:

  1. could the 13 not be the new number for the 2a and has been cut between city and lordshill

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  2. Do First never learn anything? You may remember that I broke the news of the demise of the S1 and the X2, along with the ending of their 11 service, some weeks ago, before anything was announced.... I also advised them against making wholesale changes to their network at the same time, as it confuses the public too much... Now here they go again, clutching at straws and revamping all over the place. I really do wonder who is making the decisions at First?

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    1. Tired Old Git8 May 2013 at 11:30

      So just who are you to 'advise' anyone Mr Anonymous. If you have genuine credentials then show them. You do not seem to know any more than the rest of us what the details are - so let's wait and see before we criticise what may turn out to be sensible changes.

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    2. Ralph Higgins8 May 2013 at 14:46

      What's your name?

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  3. Is the P1 being withdrawn too by Bluestar?

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    1. It looks like it, residents in Westward Road have been campaigning in the Echo.

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  4. Clutching at straws seems a tad harsh, especially as we don't know all the details. It has been a year since the service revamp so some housekeeping and revision is probably in order to ensure services are viable. Have you not thought that perhaps First are revising the services inline with what passengers use and require? Don't forget that is also the date Southampton are withdrawing subsidies.

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  5. I suspect that the 13 is just the eastern side of the 2A route, and not designed to be an attack against Bluestar; the 18 is Bluestar's goldmine and First know this.

    The changes on VOSA make for very depressing reading. First obviously have to respond to cuts in funding but there seems to be nothing at all there that appears positive to the public. It looks very much like some of the cross-city routes are being sliced in half again, something that was a major headline in last year's revamp. These new changes also mess up their idea of having consecutive numbers along major corridors for simplicity (again something that they proudly exclaimed would be helpful). Makes their phrase "Take an easier bus around Southampton" seem somewhat inappropriate now. I think this is nothing short of a giant leap backwards for First and I think it's a real shame. As I say, the cuts because of the council withdrawing funding are unfortunate but inevitable; that's fair enough. Their own changes however are much less forgiveable. Of course, this is all just speculation, but it does all look like a revamp for the worse.

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  6. We await the full details with anticipation. One possibility is that a rationalisation of evening/Sunday services could lead to special route numbers at those times running on more indirect routes compared to Mon-Sat daytimes. This is just pure speculation of course, but there are many towns and cities across the country where that is the case. If the cross-city routes are being snapped in two again, that would be a shame for those who actually travel through the city centre, but are there enough of them to justify the knock-on effects for reliability?

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  7. I have a theory this may be alleviating extra buses that would have usually run on S1/X2/11.

    A theory could be that the new 11 would run as the current 1A between City and Weston with the 1A being withdrawn. The current 1 route may be increased from 5 to 6 buses an hour.
    For the 12 I either think it will run as the 2A from Lordshill to City then as the 2 from City to Townhill Park or it could stay as the current 2 route with the 12 being an hourly extension to Lordshill North as a replacement for the S1.
    The 13 as stated before could be for the East Side of the 2A with the 2A running between Lordshill and City or it COULD take the same route as Bluestar 18 in another war but I think this is unlikely

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  8. Interesting to see Wheelers have entered the ring with a new W1 service from Romsey to Southampton from 1st July?

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  9. These are all salient possibilities, but what makes me think that the 11 will be a full replacement for the 1 between City Centre and Weston is that VOSA states that it is going to run daily, unlike the current 1A, which only runs Mon-Sat. Also, because the 1A only runs around Jurds Lake Way from council support, chances are that the council cuts have meant that the area loses its service again, which would mean that all 11's will run via Swift Road.

    The 12 I think is going to simply be a renumbering of the current 2, with the 2 becoming the 2A route between City Centre and Lordshill. I can't see Lordshill North getting a service at all to be honest, except for maybe one service to and from there at peak times. As for the 13, VOSA states that it'll only run Mon-Sat, which makes me think that it won't be a direct attack on Bluestar. If they wanted to attack the 18 they'd surely run a Sunday service as well? It does however fall in line with the current 2A, which doesn't serve Hightown on a Sunday. If this is the case though, it would mean that Harefield would be without a service on Sundays, so who knows.

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  10. Copied direct from First Hampshire Facebook:

    First Hampshire: Hi guys, no need to listen to rumour / abuse from blog sites. I can tell you:
    Number 11 will be allocated to part of the 1 route.
    Numbers 12 and 13 will between them cover most of the current 2/2A. The 2 number will then be used for something similar, but a tiny bit different...

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  11. Does anyone know what the Wheelers service is going to be? Nothing on their website and not aware that they own any buses, so its a real mystery. People who know him say he has always ridiculed bus operations.

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  12. Wheelers do own the buses that they will be using - and they're not the Darts or Spectras that they currently use on contracts (I do know what they are but I don't really think it's my place to divulge). And to be honest contrary to the impression gained by Anon @ 0250 I've always found them to be quite curious and interested in the possibility of running buses. If anything I'm surprised they haven't done it sooner!

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    1. Thanks for the reply Phil. Do we know what frequency they are planning yet? Surely this is a dangerous plan, looking at the way Bluestar ran First out of the waterside area?

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    2. I think it's hourly, whether it's a wise move or not is not my place to speculate, but give them credit for seeking out a perceived gap in the market and offering something new rather than simply duplicating existing provision.

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  13. I've seen S2's nearly full up & now the Adelaide Health Centre has got a shiny new bus shelter! Any commercial replacements noted from Velvet or First or indeed Bluestar?

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  14. There is a tender process underway at the moment to determine the future replacements for S1 and S2, and it is probably only a matter of days before the results can be shared.

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  15. The same with the S1's. I often see them nearly fully loaded going through Shirley. First really needs a commercial replacement for the S1

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  16. I'm not sure how accurate this is but I have heard the only areas to lose evening services is Sholing Loop and Harefield Estate so most probably just the 2A (new 13) and 9 will lose their services after 8pm.

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  17. I live in Lordshill North and, as I am disabled, withdrawal of the S1 would mean I would be housebound and no longer able to go to work. The S1 I get home from work every evening is usually packed with pensioners coming home from their afternoon clubs and students from the colleges. Some times it is standing room only. The bus driver told us the other day that the S1 was staying as First won the tender against Velvet. However, it may be a reduced service. I just want a bus that will allow me to lead as normal a life as possible

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  18. Some of the new timetables are on traveline if you do a plan your journey for dates in July and August they will appear if you choose not so usual start points. From what I can see.

    Number 2 will now go via Romsey Road to Millbrook Estate more or less following Bluestar 18 and running every 6 minutes Monday to Saturday

    The 10 Monday to Friday only and going via Central Station up Hill Lane. Therefore missing out Archers Road, St James Road/Wilton Road area

    The 12 will be every 20 minutes Monday to Saturday 30 minutes Sunday via General Hospital, Oakley Road etc (following the current number 2)

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    1. Actually the 12 will be following the 2A route.
      As for the new 2 I am not sure Bluestar will take too kindly to it so I could see Bluestar upping their 18 also to 10 buses an hour and maybe 12 buses an hour.

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  19. The 2 is a highly risky move by First, and it's clear they're not holding any punches now. Bluestar will not stand back and let this happen without a counter attack of some form, and they're probably planning it already, if it hasn't already been planned. I strongly expect another one of First's strongholds to be attacked very soon.

    Unfortunately for First however, I can't see it paying off in the long run. The 6 minute frequency is simply too much and Bluestar only need to add an extra 2 buses into the system to equal it, which could easily be gained by axing the near-dead 3 and possibly even the equally lifeless 16. Also, on a more general note, I wonder how many customers have Bluestar period-passes or the Key in the Millbrook area? These folks have already paid for their ticket in effect and it doesn't matter how many buses another company run, they'll still get the one they've got the prepaid ticket for. This seems to be a point that bus operators seem to forget.



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    1. Back to the early days of Blue Line with both companies running anti clockwise around Millbrook with First using Route Master busses.

      In more recent years BS have been more convenient to Sainsburys but only First serve Tesco. The rest of Shirley High St is served by both

      Ticketing and pricing will probably have a great impact = BS have a great advantage with their electronic tickets (having collected fares in advance) whereas First have a wider route cover for their daily (or longer) tickets

      What is the next move? The profitable routes are from the main estates, Millbrook, Thornhill, Townhill, Lordshill and Weston to the city. BS already run on the first 3 (but not very well on the 3rd) which leaves Lordshill and Weston. First provide a service which includes non profitable areas. BS in the city provide direct routes
      without worrying about 'off route' locations.

      BS seem to be in a better position to attack city routes. Quite how First can attack outer (BS) routes remain to be seen especially after their half hearted attack on BS8. Perhaps a direct same route attack on BS1(Winchester) BS2 (Eastleigh) BS4(Romsey) or BS9(Waterside). Even these prime BS routes have 'dead' sections which an all out attack coiuld avoid

      Time will tell

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