From 28th November, fares are going up, but curiously only on routes 6 and 8 and only on journeys starting or ending outside of the city boundary. This means that passengers in Netley, Hamble, West End and Hedge End (who have no other choice) are being disproportionately punished for the mess that First have made for themselves locally. For now, day and period tickets are staying the same, but it's occasional travellers who buy single or return tickets who will be clobbered.
This eagerness to put up fares in those areas and not in Southampton suggests that First are struggling to make ends meet locally and know that they can't increase fares in the city because almost all of their passengers now have a viable alternative offered by Bluestar.
One thing First have managed to achieve is to tell us what levels of service they'll be running over Christmas and the New Year in Southampton, Portsmouth, Wessex and Bath (for the sake of the D1 to Salisbury).
We also have Christmas plans in from Salisbury Reds and Southern Vectis, the latter of which will be providing what must be the country's most comprehensive network of bus services on Christmas Day itself, but nothing yet from Slowcoach Stagecoach. Will anywhere on the mainland have anything like the Isle of Wight's level of service on 25th December? Certainly not Portsmouth, that's for sure.
Talking of the P word, First have registered two new routes to start 6th January. The 6 will run between The Hard and Southsea via Old Portsmouth. The 12 will run between Tipner and Fratton, similar to what the 17 did before September. Timetables are not yet known, but it looks like these are funded by Portsmouth City Council, so Tipner will probably have nothing like the frequency it used to have and after a service gap of 4 months, most regular passengers will have had to make alternative arrangements long ago.
Congratulations to Go South Coast, the company trading as Bluestar, More, Salisbury Reds, Southern Vectis, Damory and Something Or Other In Swindon. They've beaten off national competition to be crowned Large Bus Operator of the Year at the RouteOne awards, which is apparently the Oscars of the bus world.
An overview of all upcoming service changes in our region is available on this page. Why not bookmark it? It's updated often before we have time to write full posts and includes links to all of our local operators' Christmas plans. It will soon be updated to give a comprehensive day-by-day summary of bus service levels across this blog's 10th festive period for our entire region.
Wonder if Bluestar might have shot themselves in the foot by introducing double-deckers - have noticed increased loadings on First buses through Shirley - for passengers like me who are unable to use the top deck, Bluestar have reduced their capacity from over 700 seats per hour to less than 500
ReplyDeleteThat's a false statement as the double deckers are much bigger then what was originally on there, the double deckers on the B*17 for example the max load is 92 people also people do use the upstairs
DeleteBut the capacity downstairs on a double decker is far lower than on a single deck....
DeleteAs heartless as it sounds both companies should be focussing on those who actually pay fares ie those without free passes
DeleteThese people are more then happy to climb some stairs and certainly seem ti appreciate the extra space
It ignores the reality of the day. About half of bus passengers are pass holders. Therefore, if you reduce the more accessible seating capacity and you have no loyalty to any operator (as free passes are not operator specific), then it could be counter productive.
DeleteThis is only accurate if there are 500 passengers per hour who are all unable to use the top deck, because those who can will do so.
DeleteIf (plucking a figure from thin air) 300 passengers per hour can't climb the stairs - and i suspect that is a big overestimate anyway - the capacity for those people is unchanged. For those who can climb the stairs, the capacity is increased, so no-one loses out.
A similar scenario occurred on a key corridor in to Glasgow. They started their competing service with dual door ex London Tridents. By the time the planned single deck vehicles became available the service had been cancelled as not viable, the core passenger group having decided to stick to the operator who provided vehicles with a greater number of easier to access seats.
DeleteVery insulting to suggest that if you`re a senior pass holder that you can`t use the upper deck.I have travelled on double deckers on Southern Vectis many a time and a large number of those on the upper deck were pensioners enjoying the views.
DeleteHaving considerable experience of bus services both on the Isle of Wight and Southampton in respect of senior travel I note there are three clear differences on the Isle of Wight
DeleteMore pensioners board at the terminal points allowing more time to access the upper deck.
Drivers usually wait until you have at least climbed the stairs.
Drivers are under less pressure to move back into the traffic flow so allowing a smoother departure from a bus stop.
I have read some dumb things in my time but reckoning that the incursion to Weston means that First are now struggling to make ends meet so they are punishing out of city passengers???
ReplyDeletePerhaps a more realistic assessment is that this is the time of year when fares tend to increase (Glasgow and Potteries are also increasing fares) and that it would be commercial suicide to do so when competing with BlueStar?
In fact, imagine the reaction if they HAD put the fares up in the city.
This blog has long since ceased to be an impartial reflection of the local bus scene.
First have wasted so much money on trying to compete with Bluestar(Remember the failed X2 and the Cityred 10 anyone?),instead of building up their own routes that they have brought any financial struggles upon themselves.
DeleteSo if they hadn't have tried anything you would have said they dont do anything and respond. I haven't seen on this blog "Bluestar mess up TownhillPark" - remember Bluestar made an aggressive move and followed the same route as First service 7 - they couldnt crack the market so went to a different plan with completely different routing.
DeleteThe 16 was changed in response to First withdrawing their 12.Had this not have happened,more than likely the 16 would still be running as First 7 route.In First withdrawing their 12 they did Bluestar a favour as the present 16 is pretty well used and getting better all the time in loadings.
DeleteIf teh 16 was changed "in response to First withdrawing their service 12" why didn't Bluestar keep the original route of service 16 going as well. If both routes were so lucrative then surely they would keep both routes - I am afraid I dont buy your logic !
DeleteAs I stated First did Bluestar a favour when they withdrew the 12 and were quick to re-route the 16.no doubt about it the 16 running the same route as the 7 was not a good idea and loadings were poor-The 16 is now much better in the route it takes
DeleteAs someone else has said above this blog is no longer an impartial reflection of the local bus scene - some people have said this for a long time, but with more and more people now coming to the same conclusion should it not be re-titled to the "Bluestar appreciation society" as this is what the blog represents. Turning to fares if you look at Bluestar fares which go outside the city of Southampton I think you will find the prices are a lot higher than in the city, especially if you compare the at the cost per mile etc. Look at Chandlers Ford, Winchester, Totton and Waterside and you will find the fares are a lot higher than in the city - have you noticed it these higher fares tend to be where Bluestar has no competition - and its the name for all bus operators in this regard not just Bluestar
ReplyDeleteThat may all be true, but it's still easy to see why people find this sequence of actions from First highly objectionable. One week they choose to spend a fortune and add to congestion and pollution by piling 3 more totally unnecessary buses an hour into Weston taking the total to 18 buses an hour when the previous week there were just 8. Then in the next breath announce a fare hike of almost 20% where they have a captive market.
DeleteWhy is it objectionable when First change fares but not Bluestar. First adding congestion by adding 3 more buses to Weston - I think Bluestar would exactly the same - in fact they did on a number of routes when they have faced competition - examples include when First won the tender to operate the service to Marchwood - Bluestar they "suddenly" said we can operate it without the subsidy and they also doubled the frequency. Similar issues when Bluestar faced competition around the Eastleigh area - Red Rocket was set up - whats happened to that ? Changing fares when in an area where this is no competition vs adding buses where this competition is virtually unrelated
DeleteI have to agree with other posters; the pro-GSC bias on this blog has become laughable, and does no credit to the owner of the blog.
DeleteIt is reasonable to point out that First has increased fares outside the city, but a simple comparison with Bluestar fares outside the city to similar destinations would have revealed that First's new fares are generally well below those charged by Bluestar. For example, an adult return from Southampton City Centre to Hedge End superstores is £6.20 on GSC and will now be £4.00 on First (still over 35% cheaper), whilst the First Hampshire day cash fare of £6.50 is a lot cheaper than the GSC equivalent, albeit for a different area of operation.
So frankly, a load of nonsense, yet again. GSC and First have both made mistakes in recent years. Anyone remember the Beep bus episode, which makes First's games on Weston look positively mild by comparison.
I also agree with comments re the low number of accessible seats on the double deckers GSC are now using. OK on the Unilink services, where the majority of passengers are able/willing to go upstairs, but much less suitable on the 18 and 17 services. I can't understand why they don't specify an offside emergency door when they buy these buses, to make conversion easy in later life. I'm unclear why the Unilink buses have to be changed every 5 years; totally unnecessary given the 63 regs are quite adequate for the role, but presumably what GSC promised when they got the contract.
Please blog owner, stick to facts and cut the trolling, or you will ruin what could be a useful resource, but "Trusted by Sotonians since 2009" is no longer true, sadly.
I think certainly for someone who has lived in Southampton over the last 15/20 years, they will have seen First cut routes all over, whereas Bluestar/Solent Blue Line (as was) have increased their reach in the city. So from that point of view, it's entirely understandable to see First as an operator who makes services worse, and Bluestar as one who improves. I left Southampton in 2001 and a quick glance at both company's routes now compared to what I remember says 'First have decimated their network and Bluestar have taken over'.
DeleteOf course there are many reasons for this - getting rid of unprofitable routes is a big one. Bluestar have done this too, but largely outside of Southampton (remember when Cadnam and Calmore had regular bus services?). This must have had an enormous impact on those in the New Forest, but for those in Southampton? Barely any difference.
There's also the (admittedly subjective) fact that Bluestar were able to make their marketing, branding, etc, more relevant and local much earlier than First, who until relatively recently were still under the corporate thumb of First's HQ. Thankfully that's now changed, but it still appears to many that First are playing catch up.
So yeah, I can understand why a Southampton-based bus enthusiast blog would be more favourable to Bluestar - though I would add that a majority of people don't care who runs what route, as long as they have a bus that goes where they want at a price they want.
Ben - it's a term in the contract between the University of Southampton and Bluestar that the buses are replaed every 5 years. Happened with the Scanias new in 2008 and now the Enviros/Volvos new in 2013. Doubtless it will happen again in 2023.
DeleteWell, regarding bus prices from Southampton to Hedge End Stores, Bluestar may offer a £6.20 return, but a dayrider for £5.80 is available, which works cheaper. When it comes to First, a return might LOOK cheaper, but if you intend to go beyond Southampton and go, for example, to the Hospital, you would need to purchase a dayrider, making it £6.50, 70p more than Bluestar...
DeleteI just rest my case here.
I find it troubling that Bluestar offer a return ticket that is dearer than the relevant day ticket. That is very poor management. Do they not look at the fare structure before implementation. Slapdash.
DeleteThe driver will always offer the day ticket if is cheaper than a return.
DeleteMy point is that the driver won't ALWAYS offer the cheaper fare; some will occasionally forget or be in a rush. Having such an obvious anomaly in the fare structure is simply down to poor management. It is not reasonable to expect drivers to sort this out.
DeleteAs for the fare from Hedge End to SGH, you are correct. It will always be possible to find fares that are cheaper on one company or the other. The original blog was about fares from City to Hedge End, hence why I made that comparison between comparable First and Bluestar fares.
However, given how poor the Bluestar 3 service is (hourly, with unbelievably only one inbound journey after 3pm on schooldays), no one in their right mind would use Bluestar/GSC for a journey from Hedge End to SGH anyway. The First 8 is every 30 minutes or so with the last journey after 8pm. Once the passenger gets to the city centre, the choice is between First 3 (8 buses an hour) and Bluestar 17 (6 buses an hour). Both are cross city so can get delayed but Bluestar have shot themselves in the foot with their choice of buses on the 17 because there are so few accessible seats on the ex Unilink E400s. Whoever thought it was sensible to allocate buses with very few truly accessible seats on their flagship service to the city's main hospital wasn't thinking about passengers in my view; merely we've got these buses which are no good for schools services because of their low seating capacity and are unwanted elsewhere, what are we going to do with them? Based on my observations, First also seem somewhat better at regulating the 3 than GSC do on the 17 & 18.
I rest my case!
A First Driver told me before I got off the City red 13 yesterday that First were struggling finicaily probably due to increasing the City red 11 to Every 5 Minutes
ReplyDeleteI've been hearing for around ten years that First - as the whole group, not just the Southampton operation - are financially troubled and that the rest of the industry expects them to be gone within six months. Like them or not, they are still here!
DeleteBut smaller and smaller every year. Blue Star must love having them as their competitor here! It's not like they are even serious or good at it.
Deletesouthern Vectis also seem to be running the best level of service between Christmas and New Year by running a normal weekday service on all routes on the Thurs,Fri and Mon.
ReplyDeleteI feel that I should address some of the comments above.
ReplyDelete1. The double deckers now being used on many Bluestar routes are to increase the available capacity, and in the case of the ones used on the 17 route, to utilize an available resource, from the former unilink fleet, without the need for costly conversion to single door. Whilst the lower saloon has less seats than a single decker, it is a huge attraction to younger people, to be able to go upstairs. Pensioners will continue to use the first bus to arrive at their stop. Thus the loadings will be equalized.
2. I do not subscribe to the theory that this blog is becoming a Bluestar appreciation society. Look at the facts... Go South Coast, of which Bluestar is a part, has just been voted the best in the business, for the second year running, by the whole industry. What has First Hampshire and Dorset won in recent years? Nothing, and it is no wonder! They have decimated their Southampton network completely. They have made some awful business decisions in my opinion, and are reaping what they have sown. This blog merely reflects these facts, very accurately. You only have to have a conversation with bus drivers, in each camp, to find out which ones are content with their employer, and which are totally despondant. The blog reflects these views too!
3. First are putting up their fares, where they have no competition. This is exactly what all competitors do. There is no sin in it, and it remains a mystery why it has not happened sooner. If they were to put their £6 weekly up to £7, Bluestar would follow in an instant, quite rightly.
4. Never listen to a word that a bus driver tells you about anything financial. It is all complete guesswork and supposition, as bus drivers are not party to that information.
Interesting the comments resulting from the observation that more passengers are choosing to use First buses. This may seem illogical but it does not change the observation. Maybe it is because Bluestar have reduced their capacity for fare-paying passengers like myself who cannot use the top deck. Maybe it is because some pensioners are prepared to wait for a less crowded bus (to my surprise, I have seen dozens and dozens do this over the years). People behave in unexpected ways - who would believe that people do not shop in Southampton City Centre while disruption is caused by Flying Santa - I know several people who do this.
ReplyDeleteGood to see my observations backed up by facts from similar experiences in Glasgow.
Deleteif First had deployed dual door buses onto the streets of Southampton then the headline would have been "First cannot afford to get the right bus for the route" - with it being Bluestar it hardly warrants a mention and some commentators on here are saying its a very wise and sensible move rather than converting them to dual door. The facts are southampton bus routes (Uni terminal points excluded) are not set up for dual door operation, you need the shelters in the right place and you need drivers who will open and use the centre doors (the latter already an issue with some bluestar drivers). First tried dual door buses around 2001 and it didnt work for some of the reasons above.
ReplyDeleteWinning an award doesn't really testify to being a great company either. Most award schemes (not just in the bus industry) are all about writing the application form and who the sponsor of the award is. I believe First have been runner up for bus operator of the year at a number of events, but as I say, its all just a back slapping exercise with the sponsors. The true test at the end of the day is what the majority (not people on this blog, but the majority) of customers say or do. Maybe the editor of this blog should choose his words more wisely and show impartiality going forward - it will actually make it a far better blog and probably get more views
I really do have to disagree with you about the awards. If you do your research, you will find that many aspects of the businesses are rigourously tested, including a large number of mystery shopper events. Go South Coast spend a fortune on customer focus training, which is clearly working well, in the majority of cases.
DeleteWhat is a mystery shopper event? Mystery shoppers act alone (by definition, I used to be one), so how can they have an event? More pro-GSC b*lls*it!
DeleteMost of the awards are sponsored by industry companies; if you do YOUR research, many of the winners are customers of that particular sponsor. Not a surprise, but that's business!
Oh please! Mystery shoppers are told where to research, thus an event takes place, in terms of where they do their research. Whoever sponsors an award has no influence over who wins it. Nothing about this is in any way pro GSC, nor Reading buses, nor anyone else for that matter! It's the whole industry that votes for the big awards, based on facts, not supposition. I for one, congratulate all of the winners, no matter who owns them.
DeleteIn response to some of the comments above:
ReplyDeleteI'm not convinced that Reece had a conversation with a First driver who imparted such information. Even IF he had, there is a) less than TWO weeks actual data on which to draw any conclusion and that any impact at this stage will be limited as passengers may have longer duration passes who won't have swapped yet and b) the idea that any driver will have such commercially sensitive info is laughable!
This blog claims to provide "news of changes to all bus services in South Hants, urban East Dorset, South-East Wilts and the Isle of Wight, regardless of operator" and that was why I began visiting. The idea of "news" and "regardless of operator" seems rather hollow now. Take the statement "This eagerness to put up fares in those areas and not in Southampton suggests that First are struggling to make ends meet locally and know that they can't increase fares in the city because almost all of their passengers now have a viable alternative offered by Bluestar." - apart from supposition rather than news, it seems to ignore the fact other firms around the country are increasing fares and that First in Southampton, if engaged in a competitive environment, would be very foolish to put themselves at a competitive disadvantage.
Then we have the comment of "it's still easy to see why people find this sequence of actions from First highly objectionable. One week they choose to spend a fortune and add to congestion and pollution by piling 3 more totally unnecessary buses an hour into Weston taking the total to 18 buses an hour when the previous week there were just 8." Now, I forget, who has just entered into this market with a new competitive service? Who has added MORE pollution and congestion? WHO? That's Bluestar but is that levelled at them - no, it's First who are blamed in totality. They have understandably reacted to this competition. If they hadn't, then the comments would have been that they "can't react", "can't afford to react", "signifies end of days", "paralysis" and such like. Damned either way.
No one is saying that First are great (they're not) or that they haven't made bad decisions in the past (they have). Nor is anyone saying that GSC isn't a good firm. However, this blog USED to be a fine repository for information and news. It is a long way from that now.
PS - a couple of things for you to work out. How much money do you think the Hamble et al fare increases will raise compared to the additional cost of the extra 11s - clue: not that much
PPS Bluestar introducing deckers does decrease available same level capacity and if you don't think pensioners are that valuable, they make up about 50% of all journeys and remember, they have no intrinsic loyalty to any operator because of their pass.
In the real world people don't care about bus wars and politics between operators or whether they are "engaged in a competitive environment". They just want a bus system that works and provides a sensible level of service and doesn't rip people off in some areas to fund bus wars in other areas. When this sort of thing happens people don't want to be told that it has to be like this and they will have to put up with it because First did this and Bluestar did that and now First need to hit back at Bluestar and Bluestar need to hit back at First. Instead they will just say this whole system is ridiculous and we need one that works better.
DeleteFirst have got most of the criticism recently because during the last few years they have repeatedly cut services and hiked up fares on uncompetitive routes to add services directly duplicating Bluestar. Bluestar have at least tried to offer something a bit different with their competitive services and to fill in some of the gaps left by First.
When operators behave like First have been recently they only have themselves to blame that people start supporting Labours transport policies instead.
Again - this is the real world. I accept that passengers want a bus system that does what you suggest. However, it is the continued suggestion on this blog that First are alone in doing this. I don't think for a minute that they are upping the prices to fund a bus war - think of the likely revenue increase. How much would that be (especially as its only on single and return fares)? What will that bring in comparison to the cost of extra resources? That the blogger has suggested that this without any facts, and that the likelihood is extremely remote, just makes a mockery of its claims to be "trusted"
DeleteWhat may ask how are Bluestar funding these additional competitive incursions? That's coming from somewhere? Remember at the same time as all this lovely expansion in Southampton, look at the continued reductions of the Salisbury Reds network over the last 10 years or so?
Then we have poster highlightomg the extra pollution and congestion from an additional 3 bph from First, yet ignoring the fact that Bluestar have caused that by wading in as they have.
It's comical, and that's before we get to Reece's "driver" with his financial insight about 12 days into this latest skirmish.
It's not a binary First BAD, GSC GOOD world - you'd not think it judging by the "insights" shown on this page at times!
As we all know a fair amount of this is purely an ego trip, as go south coast have a habit of taking on loss making routes from other operators - they have taken on the former service 5 and 12 of First; the former Yellow Buses R1 and R2 ? ...and this is probably being funded from the likes of customers on the isle of wight, canford Heath, Hamworthy, Chandlers Ford etc etc. A quick glance at fares tells you this...no returns on the isle of wight at all except Newport to Cowes and then only after 0900 Mon-Fri - a Day ticket is £10
DeleteAnon@19:06-What you seem to have missed is you can buy a bundle of five one day passes for Southern Vectis for £25 which works out as £5 for a day ticket but must not let this great point side track your uncalled for anti-Go Ahead rant.
Delete...and most people who use a bus choose single and returns - high fares do go hand in glove with no competition, but not even offering a return fare on IOW is somewhat dated to say the least.
DeleteThere are plenty of operators that don't offer a return ticket, it is more common than you think. And the number has only increased over the last decade or so, when you look at operators in areas like the North West.
DeleteI remember yrs ago as in the early noughties- Solent Blue line as it was then wouldn't give me a return fare @ 6am? Too early for a return the driver would say! I was trying to get to work & I'd be using the return leg 10 hrs later! Hardly what I'd call early for a return! How ridiculous I thought to myself, hence why I was put off from using them all those yrs ago & had to use First instead.
DeletePps Hits the nail on the head i was at a stop other day were stagecoach and go ahead both operate a service every 20 min. both due at stop roughley withen a min or 2 of each other(both go to same place but only shadow each other part way) there was some enct pass holders at the stop the go ahead appeared first which they were gonna get(by earwigging) but the stagecoach had priority on a roundabout and got to stop first so they all bundeled on that both buses were e200 1 a 14 plate the other a 65 so to them age,colour,operator of bus dident matter.
DeleteTo the comment on day tickets being cheaper then returns stagecoach have/had dayriders cheaper then rtns the spring in winchester and 30/31 in havant being 2 examples tho i find at the mo a plusbus add on from a train ticket a good deal and can work out cheaper then operators tickets and give you flexability on most routes. And as all train operaters that come in to this blog covering area are operated with a group that runs buses your not taking anything away and please quote me if im wrong but im led to beleve that a train company gets a % of revenue from a station if they dont operate it bus stop there
I used to like/use First yrs ago & not so much Bluestar. But then First withdrew bus routes I used & I had no choice but to use Bluestar. Them I moved to different part of So'ton, & I used First again...until they withdrew services again! So I use Bluestar all the time now mainly because they start earlier & are most direct route to town. Sure there are First options but they take too long as they go around the houses, so to speak.
ReplyDeleteHaving sampled both Bluestar 16 and the Weston end of the Bluestar 17 yesterday, neither of them could be classed as busy. Even on a Saturday. I would have thought the 16 is at break event point at best, but then again, I haven't seen the loads during peak times. The 17 to Woolston & Weston was very quiet. It could easily have been run with a Solo nevermind an E400. Granted, it's only two weeks in, but First seem to be running with busy StreetLites, and people were waving the Bluestar buses past to wait for the First buses. This could stem from the fact that people in Weston and parts of Woolston may never have used a Bluestar bus before, so why would they suddenly want to change, especially if they personally have never had any problems with First in the past? Whilst it may seem like "all the signs are there" to suggest First are closing in Southampton, they do seem to have a very sensible business plan in focusing on the routes that make money, rather than ones which are lucky to carry one fare paying passenger. First 7 seems busy around Townhill Park, especially compared to Bluestar 16, but perhaps Bluestar can afford to run the 16 based on the money it takes from routes like the 1, 18 and even the Shirley/Lordshill end of the 17. I also had no problems with drivers using the middle doors on either the 17 or 18, or even the single-deck Volvo I had on one of the 16's. But we must remember, most drivers at both Bluestar and First have probably never driven a dual-door bus before in their lives, so it does take a lot of getting used to, hence the teething problems with some Bluestar drivers. I agree however, this blog has gone from being about bus news in and around Southampton, whilst it now seems to be more of a Bluestar appreciation page. It's important to compare how both operators have made mistakes, neither are wonderful, but neither are particularly awful either.
ReplyDeleteThe 16 must be making some money - it's illegal under competition law for bus companies to cross-subsidise loss-making routes!
DeleteI have used the 16 from town about 4pm on a Saturday and it was pretty full so not sure George Baker has as well otherwise he`d see a different picture.
DeleteThe Bluestar 16 may become busier now that it has a better evening service. Previously, the B*16 stopped at around 8pm whereas now it has buses until 11pm from the City.
DeleteUnfortunately, the law about cross-subsidising loss making routes is half the problem with the loss of rural services.
DeleteThe person behind this site has got you all talking which is great.
ReplyDeletePlease note the beep bus episode is before Go Ahead`s time,Bluestar actually do listen to and action customer suggestions and First started the bus war by attacking Bluestar 18 with routes 2 and 10.
Please note that you're incorrect.
DeleteGo Ahead bought SV/SBL in July 2005. The Beep Bus episode was October 2008
But not incorrect on the bus wars.
DeleteHmmm.... I can only surmise that you brought up the Beep Bus episode as some "GSC wouldn't act in a predatory manner" when clearly they would and did.
DeleteBluestar 16 vs First 7= I use 16 as it's a quicker route to Big Cheese stop area, rather than get stuck in Portswood & Cobden Bridge traffic. Sure, sometimes it's quiet re passenger numbers but other times it's full to the brim on single decker.
ReplyDeleteGood to see Bluestar offering a service on New Year`s day while First let down the travelling public yet again with no service.
ReplyDeleteWest Quay is closed New Years Day, therefore I would imagine a huge slump in demand. Whilst there are some other demands for bus travel on this day it is very small indeed throughout the country - most people don't go to bed until very late (usually the early hours). There are no doubt some people who have to work on this day, but with the huge slump in demand bus is hardly the right choice as it tends to transport a lot of fresh air (not good for the environment !)
DeleteI am afraid you are wrong. West Quay South will be open, with the cinema, restaurants and bowling... Inform yourself before misinforming others. BTSHD
DeleteWould you prefer it if I said the majority of West Quay is closed for New Years Day - the demand for bus service is shopping trips as opposed for leisure trips and as mentioned above many people dont surface until last morning/most midday
DeleteThat is why it is a reduced service! They have been doing it for enough years to know whether it makes financial sense, and you would have to guess that it does, or they would not keep doing it.
DeleteHere is a link to the Stagecoach Christmas service levels - https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and-offers/south/christmas-and-new-years-2018#tab7
ReplyDeleteSunday service on both Boxing Day and New Years Day from Stagecoach.
DeleteI am sure that it is an improvement, did they not operate a 'special service' last year?
Wondering a few things could be done in First network to increase patronage:
ReplyDelete1. Make it local. Reopening the Shop at Pound Tree Road and a local person (based in the Control Room or Empress Road) to write on Twitter and keeping people informed.
2. Consider changing bus manufacturers. Using other makes more reliable and less rattling would make journeys more comfortable. (Bonus, change that horrendous voice on the next stop announcements)
3. Introduce special offers to call new patronage. Instead of increasing frequency and flood one corridor with 12 buses an hour, try to attract patronage by creating a special offer. Example, a £2.50 unlimited ticket from 6:30pm until end of service, with a supplement of £1.50 if going beyond Southampton.
4. Listen to customers' feedback. Surely if we hear what the true user says regarding the bus service, we can deliver better quality, keeping everyone happy.
5. (Personal view). Make a few changes to the network, creating new opportunities of travelling. (May include renumbering)
5.1. Route 1. Aldermoor - Weston, via General Hospital, Millbrook, Shirley, City Centre and Woolston (Merging current routes 2 and 11 and extend to Aldermoor Turning Circle)
5.2. Route 2 City Centre - Townhill Park (same as current 7)
5.3. Route 3 Lower Brownhill - Thornhill (same as current 3, plus an extension to Lower Brownhill Road)
5.4. Route 6 City Centre - Bursledon Sundays Hill (same as current 6, plus an extension to Bursledon Sundays Hill and Latitude Estate via Hamble Lane, Tesco Bursledon, Bert Betts Way and Dodwell Lane. (I know the traffic issues at Bert Betts Way towards Windhover Roundabout at peak, and at those times the bus wouldn't go to Sundays Hill and terminate at Tesco.)
5.5. Route 7 - Central Station - Thornhill Park (same route as actual service 13 plus two extensions: first, starting at Central Station, then via Portland Terrace and Bargate Street and does not serve Vincents Walk but serves Houndwell Park; second, from Somerset Avenue turn left to Bitterne Road East and running as far as Moorhill Gardens and at the roundabout, an u-turn to Southampton and then straight again to Bitterne Road East direct to Bitterne Sainsburys)
5.6. Route 8 City Centre - Hedge End Station (roughly the same route as the current 8, with an alteration after Hedge End Superstores: runs via Wildern Lane, serves the Village, then Bursledon Road, Heath House Lane, Kings Copse Avenue, Maypole Roundabout, Grange Road and resuming current route from Locke Road Roundabout)
5.7. Route 9 - Central Station - Sholing (roughly same route as the current 9 plus an extension to Central Station and following same route of the (new) 7 as far as Woolston.
5.8. Route 10 - Lordshill - Bitterne (roughly same route as the school service 40, with a few alterations: From Lordshill it would serve Aldermoor Road and then back to current route until Vincents Walk, where it would extend via Bargate Street, Civic Centre, Northam and terminating at Bitterne, by not serving Little Lances Hill and going under the viaduct and turning left at the exit to West End Road). New Service 10 would run every 30 minutes M-F and 60 minutes Saturday, creating new journey opportunities to General Hospital from Bitterne.
Oh dear.Has the ozone level finally collapsed.
DeleteThere are a few good ideas there. Looking at them one by one...
Delete1. The shop was closed because people don't use it. A vast majority of those looking for bus information do so online now. For the few who don't, it's unlikely to be worthwhile. But I do agree that having a local person updating social media would be a huge advantage and make them seem less corporate.
2. Yes, more comfort is always good, but I wouldn't say they are uncomfortable at the moment.
3. Also a good idea. Yellow Buses do similar promotional fares quite often, especially for the evenings (currently doing a £6 group ticket after 5pm) to improve usage during those times.
4. I'm sure they already do this, they just don't communicate out what feedback they receive.
5. I don't know enough about the Southampton area to comment on most of these but another large revamp? They aren't Yellow Buses :D
5.4 Unlikely to get much demand away from the railway, X4/X5 and BS3 at the other end. Certainly not enough to justify the cost of running.
5.5 Is it really worth the cost of an extra vehicle or two when there are so many services between the City Centre and Central station? Not too sure.
Some good ideas there, although I would try and keep renumbering to a minimum if possible. I would also look at creating more cross city links and improving frequency on routes in areas where there is no alternative public transport.
DeleteSo here’s my take on improving the First Southampton network:
1: New route between Sholing and General Hospital via Bitterne, Northam, City Centre, Hill Lane, Lordswood Road and Coxford Road. Inbound route completes terminus loop via Dale Road and Winchester Road before rejoining Hill Lane at Upper Shirley roundabout. Every 20 minutes.
2: Combine the existing 2 with the 11 to create a cross-city route between Weston and Millbrook. Every 10 minutes.
3: Same route as existing 3 but frequency reduced to every 10 minutes to improve reliability and free up buses for other routes.
X4/X5: No change.
6: Same route as existing 6 but frequency increased to every 20 minutes.
7: Same route and frequency as existing service 7, every 10 minutes.
8: Reroute via Peartree Avenue and Central Bridge between Bitterne and City to restore Hedge End’s link with Woolston. Existing route north of Bitterne remains the same. Frequency increased to every 20 minutes.
9: Route between City and Bitterne remains the same, but will no longer operate to Sholing and instead terminate at Harefield via existing route 13. Frequency increased to every 20 minutes.
11: Withdrawn. Replaced with extended service 2.
13: Withdrawn. Replaced with amended services 8 and 9 as described above.
Replying to everyone in here:
Delete1. A bus travel shop would be open 9am-5pm Monday to Friday only and could give a help on twitter on those quiet times when nobody turns up.
2. I did not mean changing all buses in once, but whey they reach a certain age, a graduated selling of the streetlites could be good and replace them with, for example, an E200MMC matching the same features of bluestar: free USB plugs and wifi (although they give wifi already).
2.1. I never suggested turning off the next stop announcements, the voice is irritating, their GPS is weaker than on other companies, stopping working suddenly and they aren't big enough. I barely can see the next bus stop on the display with such small font.
3 and 4. The point is, listen to customer feedback, which they do not do it often.
5.1 Is my idea too bad not to be mentioned? I actually thing it is good, because it would compete better with Bluestar 17 as well a connection that the 18 can't offer. One simple bus to get to Hospital from Millbrook every 7-8 minutes (against the 30 min of BS7)
5.5. and 5.7. Often, people change buses at Vincents Walk to get to Central Station and diverting these two services away from clogged Vincents Walk would ease this. As alternative, people would need to get off at Debenhams or Bargate West Quay for City Centre, or board in at West Quay (stop BQ) or Houndwell Park to Sholing/Harefield/Thornhill Park.
5.8. Believe me, my suggested service 10 (Bitterne - Lordshill via Northam, Hill Lane, General Hospital and Aldermoor Road (Or instead via Olive Road) with the right advertising, would be busy, with people being able to experience faster journeys to General Hospital, as well as restored links between Bitterne and Northam to Hospital. Since when this is strange? Or perhaps my idea was too good for you. BTSHD
1 Why would you open a shop, when we must assume it doesn't cover it costs - business don't tend to stop doign things unless its not making money
ReplyDelete2 Why on earth would you change the fleet of buses - all bus manufacturers have issues - from a customer perspective the streetlites are ok - very roomy and airy. Bluestars E200 are also good buses - to the customer the type of bus is virtually irrelevant. Why would you turn off next stop announcements - what a strange suggestion!
3 - routing some strange suggestions in your list that I would imagine wouldn't generate sufficient revenue - an example would be your route 10 operating the same as service 40 - assume up Hill Lane - where there are very little houses to serve - but at least you have put down some ideas - maybe Bluestar could send their 17 via Hill Lane ?
There are actually quite a lot of houses in the Hill Lane/Wilton Road area, many of which have no access to any service apart from the infrequent Xelabus X11.
DeleteFirst 5 and 25 used to operate along Hill Lane and Wilton Rd area and surprise ,surprise they were poorly used and withdrawn.
DeleteWell when I caught the 5A (25 was remembered and changed to serve Bitterne on the East side)
DeleteUsed to live in Lordshill and the 5A was often very busy due to the quicker route to town and avoiding the busy Shirley corridor.
The 5 was also quite busy due to the same reason as avoiding Shirley but not quite as direct to town. I used to always use the 5 and 5A.
The reason for them being less used was due to First being greedy by cutting the frequency then evening services were stopped altogether.
The cross city routes were then split and then the 5A was replaced with the 4 reduced to hourly and no longer went to Lordshill, instead serving Totton. The 5 was also reduced to hourly and cut back to Aldermoor. Lordshill lost both it's fastest routes to town and all other routes went through busy Shirley.
If the 5 and 5A was still running and at 20 minutes on the original routes they would still be well used.
But due to First being greedy they lost these great routes.
Incompetent route planning more like. Most companies don't seem to realise what a skilled job it is.
DeleteLet's hope all these armchair bus planners on this site have submitted their suggestions to the First planning department for comment back
ReplyDeleteDo you have a better idea? All the ideas here are feasible. And I especially agree with BTSHD, people would like a more regular bus up Hill Lane.
DeleteNo wonder First can't find a competent commercial network planner ! Lol
ReplyDeleteThat's why you are an Old f̶a̶r̶t̶ git.
DeleteRetired now but produced networks for Citybus and First in 1995 & 2005.
DeleteChanged a bit since back then.I expect you glad you are out of it.
DeleteWe all await the impact that the new interim director at First will have, now that Mr Reddy has departed. The clue may well be in his title!
ReplyDeleteWhere has he gone,and is this another rumour,as he was reported to have left a while back.
DeletePromoted to a group position apparently !
DeleteBecause of my physical health I am entirely dependent on public transport and use it to travel all over Southampton. I used SCT/Citybus/First exclusively for many years until their short-sighted operating strategy made this untenable - and so the only time I have used a First bus in the last 10 years was on 9th Jan 2010 - which means their "business plan?" has generated about 0.02% of potential revenue from me. Love to hear Lord Alan Sugar giving his verdict on that! Think it would be a bit stronger than "You're fired!"
ReplyDeleteWhy is the First Southampton Tweets site such a mess?
ReplyDeleteWhere is it run from now? Leeds or Norwich?
DeleteAll social media for First Group is operated from Leeds.
DeleteGood local knowledge of Southampton then
DeleteGo south coast make mistakes or has everyone forgot planet eastleigh and the demise of red rockets! And go ahead do put fares up plymouth have had a rise in last few weeks making stagecoach the cheap alternitive
ReplyDeleteIf any bus company wan't to increase their fares it's up to them.I'm now fed up on this site with reading comments about one company doing one thing and the other another. The comment posted was to the fact that First Southampton Tweet site is a mess,and looking this morning at it,it's a mess well for todays information at least.It does not do the public travelling any favours when nonsense is posted by any operator.I also notice a posting that Marc Reddy has left First Southampton.As far as I can see He's still there.Unless things are confirmed then don't post.This site which use to be rather good in peoples comments,has lately become a farce,which I note others have pointed out.
DeleteThe Twitter is run by First in Leeds. Management in Southampton know it's a mess but hands are tied as head office wants all social media to be operated out of Leeds. Southampton has no access to the Twitter pages.
DeleteI was on the 13 tonight on the 2107 from Woolston to Bitterne.
ReplyDeleteI was speaking to the driver on loan from Hilsea who on occasions regularly goes on loan to Empress Road told me that drivers have been going on loan to Edinburgh due to new contracts.
I was speaking to him the whole way up Peartree Avenue
So much for asking people not to distract the driver whilst the bus is in motion
ReplyDeletePlease stop putting everyone in danger Reece just to gain a piece of gossip.
DeleteOr indeed putting the drivers job at risk by allowing to be distracted....
DeleteIn non-First/GSC news, a few of Yellow Buses' upcoming timetables are now on traveline. Here's what I can see so far:
ReplyDelete2: Evening services will once again serve Castlepoint (aside from the last two journeys)
6: Schoolday short journeys to Wallisdown are removed because....
6a: New route from Bournemouth to the Uni via Holdenhurst Road and Charminster. Runs every half hour Monday to Friday between the peaks with a couple of evening peak journeys to Mountbatten
36: Peak time journeys retimed
Other routes are either not up yet or have no changes I can see. I strongly suspect that route 8 will be cut down quite heavily due to the new 6a - maybe even just to a couple of peak time journeys
The 8 is being cut to hourly and extended to/from Southbourne in the peak times,will not run on Saturday and will become a silver route from what I've seen.
DeleteThe 1c will be withdrawn
The 1 will only go to Poole every 30 minutes and not at all between Westbourne and Poole on a Sunday.
1,1b,3 to use Bournemouth Triangle
1b to extend to Westbourne on Sundays
1b to run an even worse timetable than it has since September.
Many timetable changes on most routes
I wonder how many more timetable changes there will be before Yellow Buses team get it more or less right.Their present customers must by now be fed up with continual changes to the network
DeleteThe 8 moving to a silver route is hardly surprising. What does surprise me is the extension to Southbourne in peak times. They tried this with the 26/U9/U10 - which got cut back to peak hours. And then removed entirely. So quite why they are doing it again is beyond me, when the Unibus U3 is a thing that exists.
DeleteThat's what I thought Alice, when a driver told me I was very surprised and then when I saw the timetable I was even more surprised.
DeleteHello. I am back just to say I bloddy warned you about the withdrawal of service 1c, but I didn't see coming a huge reduction on the corridor Poole - Christchurch.
DeleteRegards.
I see Yellows still use the eight colour bars on all publicity, despite two of those colours not being associated with routes now. You would have thought even if the 7 and 8 are just shadows of their former selves, and not worth getting some vinyls printed up and applied to the buses, they would still keep the colours to justify their colour logo...
DeleteAgree with comments above the 8 extending again to Southbourne is bizarre. If it didn't work when the route had double the frequency and reached more destinations why would it work now? The 6a also makes me feel like I'm missing something. What on earth justifies a half hourly frequency when apart from those people along a short stretch of Holdenhurst Road (where the 2 often only stops at one or two stops because of a lack of custom) wanting to go to Winton or the University, everyone else already has a faster and more frequent route to their destination? If anything, I would have thought it would have made more sense to maintain the half-hourly frequency of the 8 and extend from Boscombe to Bournemouth (via Christchurch Rd) rather than Southbourne - more potential patronage and less buses required surely? If anyone can explain the business case here it would be very much appreciated...
Good to see you back Claudio. :)
DeleteAnyone know what's happened with the Poole outstation opened only a year ago? It was supposedly to allow future expansion, new routes to Wimborne, Swanage and the like, eventually employing 57 people.
https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/15492653.Yellow_Buses_wants_to_expand_its_services_by_building_bus_depot_in_Poole/
http://www.route-one.net/articles/Operators/Yellow_Buses_expands_to_Poole
Now as Claudio points out, there has been another significant reduction in services to Poole. It's hard to see the promised expansion into Poole, with services operating significantly within Poole's boundary down to a half hourly 1 and an hourly 18 (and nothing at all on a Sunday). I appreciate the outstation was signed off under the previous disastrous management, and I guess in the routeone article David Squire is putting a positive public spin on things while privately cursing it as a financial drain, but I would love to know the inside story on this.
One other thought...
DeleteDon't Yellows pay their competitors More a small fortune to have a prime bus stand in Poole bus station? That stand, until very recently filled with eight buses an hour, will now be almost empty during the week and completely empty on a Sunday. Again, this is a historical agreement that the current management are stuck with, but also wouldn't it make sense to try and get some value for money out of their investment and actually run some services?
Before the retendering of services, and before all these revamps, we used to have services 1b and 1c, up to a combined 8 buses per hour, plus the 20, 1 bus per hour, and the 26/26a (combined of 2 buses per hour). 11 buses per hour operated by yellow buses from Poole Station. And from 2019 it will be only 2 buses per hour on the 1.
DeleteI do really believe RATP may sell its position on the yellows if 2019 does not attract more patronage. It is fact: since they took over from Transdev, all routes had huge changes. Remember the service 1X from Bournemouth to Poole via Bournemouth Road? Remember service 4c to West Moors and 4d to Wimborne, first via Merley, then via Ferndown? Remember how many routes the airport had? Remember all the changes for people in Poole and Bournemouth with changes to services? I do not recall seeing More doing such drastic movements in such little time.
Yellow Buses have been badly managed during the last 10 years and it is a shame.
It was because of you Mark that I stopped commenting, because what I do in this blog is what Alice and Andi, and many anonymous do: speculate. And no blog is a source of information, we just research for it, and it may be well interpreted or not.
DeleteAnyway, it is now in the past, but hope I am not bullied anymore.
I am curious to see the loadings of the night bus N5...
Mark - I wonder if the 6a is an attempt to take some patronage from Unibus at Dorchester House (though how effective that will be given that it would stop the opposite side of the road, I don't know).
DeleteClaudio - good to see you back again. You're absolutely right about the management under RATP. It has been very chaotic, especially in the last two or three years, where there have been three, four, sometimes five big changes each year. In the same time, you can count the number of More's major changes to routes on one hand.
I've not seen what the n5 loadings are like (prefer to be in bed!), but they are promoting it heavily on their social media each week. And it appears to be surviving the next big network change, so it can't be too bad
Something else interesting to note is that, according to the new route map, the 1 will not serve Ashley Road in Parkstone at all. It will turn off at Redlands roundabout down Bournemouth Road.
DeleteWhen I regularly went to Upper Parkstone, Yellow Buses ran every 10 minutes there. 18 months later, just once an hour. Honestly, if they had a big F on their logo, we'd all be talking about when they're closing up shop!
The rerouting of the 1 seems to be also an attempt at winning passengers from more being it will be timetabled the quickest route from Bournemouth to Poole and them trying to scoop a few U2 passengers which I highly doubt is going to happen. It's got be one of the most stupid decisions made under the new management.
DeleteIt appears that in YB language:
Delete"quickest route" = "boarding times are reduced if there aren't any passengers to board on the route"
"improve punctuality" = "can't be late if we don't run any buses"
The re-routing of the 1 is clearly the last chance saloon on a route to Poole. Yes it may be quicker, but they will lose out badly on frequency.
DeleteThe 8 will work around schools, hence the gaps and it going silver - then again, that's what the 6A will do.
As for Poole Bus Station, they'll be paying per departure, and should be the same for any stand.
Yellows must be paying a premium for exclusive use of Stand C at Poole Bus Station surely. I can't see that more would have promoted them to the nearest stand to the Dolphin Centre entrance after those used by m1 and m2 out of the kindness of their heart.
DeleteAlice - good spot on the rerouting of the 1 avoiding Upper Parkstone. Although they're removing a lot of potential journeys there'a a possibility the attraction of running seven minutes faster than more between the town centres (combined with more convenient stops for some at The Triangle and Bournemouth and Poole College (compared with M1 Westbound)) might bring them extra custom. But at a half hour frequency... that's a lot of more buses people have to let pass them by to save seven minutes. Time will tell.
DeleteIf it does work out for them, maybe they should consider the same trick the other side of town - running some buses from Fisherman's Walk via Wentworth Avenue to Boscombe Spa Road past Shelley Theatre thus avoiding Boscombe and Pokesdown.
All - please note the following post has nothing to do with buses, so feel free to skip!
DeleteClaudio, I've spent some time waiting before replying to your post, because I wanted to get the wording correct.
Although I stand by the comment I posted, I perhaps should have considered that English may not be your first language. Therefore what I found as speculation reported as fact (obviously I have no problem with speculation itself be it from yourself, Alice, Andi, Anon..., it's the lifeblood of any forum or blog) and an aggressive approach towards other posters may be nothing of the sort and purely a result of writing in a second language. I should have taken that into account, and will do so in the future. Please do note that I do very much welcome your input, which I find interesting.
With that in mind, I would ask you to take into account something for me. Calling my very first post on this site "bullying", as you (and an anonymous poster with a similar writing style to you) did, I find upsetting and offensive in the extreme. As someone who suffered relentless bullying from a manager which ultimately forced me out of a job, I am perhaps overly sensitive to the use of the word, but I can assure you that my post was far from bullying. Critical yes, but in no way bullying. I have never had any response like that from anyone on the internet before and was shocked by it. If I made you feel like you didn't want to post again then I'm sorry that was not my intention, but you should know you certainly made me feel that way also.
With that in mind, happy to put all this in the past, and focus on buses ongoing! Please keep on posting, and looking forward to good discussions ongoing.
FWIW, I think Yellows diverting the 1 via Lower Parkstone is a smart move. the congestion in Upper Parkstone is horrendous and the 1 will definitely be the quickest route from Bournemouth/Westbourne to Poole. If they had been brave enough to run it every 15 minutes, I would have switched my daily commute from GSC m1/m2 to Yellows 1. Sadly I (and I suspect others) won't find eb=very 30 mins frequent enough to be tempting.
DeleteWhy switch. m1/2 is unreliable with big gaps and lots of bunching, whilst the new E200MMC buses are horrible to travel on when busy, claustrophobic with seemingly no rear supension on most of them. At least on Yellows 1 I would (usually) get a seat (assuming they will run them with double deckers).
Shame; I prefer Yellows variety to GSC mediocrity
People also want to the front of the bus to get off despite being asked to remain seated till the bus stops.
ReplyDeleteStanding up early endangers yourself.
DeleteDistracting the attention of a driver endangers all passengers, road users and pedestrians.
Not sure it is a realistic comparison.
People also have to stand on busy buses and could potentially fall over if the bus brakes suddenly Reece.They have those signs to cover themselves in the event of being sued.
DeleteReece I think you`ll find people do that to not slow the bus down at every stop
DeleteFrom the drivers point of view, perfectly able people, who could safely walk down the bus, to be ready to get off, but remain seated and then do the "model" walk down the bus, taking an eternity, are a real pain. Completely different for elderly and the less able. You are right that the signs are there solely to protect the bus operator from legal action.
DeleteThere's no right answer to this, and while techinically you should remain seated until the bus is stopped, it's often easier to get up ready.
DeleteI know the road near the stops I alight at, so (barring something unexpected) I know when it's best to stand up. For example, one stop is just after some traffic lights. I never get up as we approach them, just in case they turn red and the driver has to stop quickly. But once we are past, or stopped at them, the likelihood of me falling is much lower.
And if I do, it'll be entirely my fault.
I usually press bell & get up a few secs prior to stop. Agree with anon @ 00:16 it's a pain with the 'model walk' ones. Although I know of some drivers who don't have patience for that. Some never check their CCTV for people coming down the stairs, which is obviously dangerous. Other times I've pressed bell, stood near front & he misses the stop?! It's as if they zone out?
ReplyDeleteI feel bad when the driver needs to wait for myself to get off, hence I get up prior to the bus stop I require.
ReplyDeleteI know it is dangerous and it is not easy, especially when I am on the upper level of a double decker.
I try to change this but sometimes some drivers give you aN INTIMIDATING look if we take ages to get off.
Not as dangerous as those standing on packed buses and playing with their phones instead of holding onto the rails whilst the bus is in motion all it would take is a sudden brake and they`d go flying.
DeleteSometimes elderly people do take a tumble if driver brakes suddenly but this can be avoided. Older folk seem to stand with feet together whereas you need to be primed to respond to movement. So stand with feet offset from one another, & knees bent is what I always do.
ReplyDeleteI find the elderly put themselves in danger. Standing up way before the bus reaches the bus stop. Delaying the bus when it's trying to pull away by trying to grab the Metro paper at the bottom of the pile instead of the ones at the top. Taking the the seat at the very back of the bus despite all the front seats being free. Very frustrating.
DeleteWhy today do some people have so much difficulty in using a bus.Years past people didn't,but I notice in my daily travels it seems as the years progress,some people seem to be so thick in how they act,it's a wonder how they ever get out of bed in the morning without an instruction kit.
ReplyDeleteWhat are you referring to mate?
DeletePH1121126/302 Registered
ReplyDeleteGO SOUTH COAST LTD
Route: Weston, Barnfield Road to Adanac Park via Shirley, Southampton City Centre
Service number: Bluestar 17
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 28 Jan 2019
Amend Route and Timetable
Probably roadworks, nothing major.
ReplyDeleteAmendments to timetable, particularly the unrealistic evening ones, and changes to running times between adanac and hospital, which are too tight. This is just an inspired guess!
ReplyDeleteIndeed, the evening ones are just too tight... They need to run on time and not to be rushed.
DeleteNo chance in Southampton with running any bus service to time on any day at any time.Even late evenings on some routes they are shocking in how they run,that's if they even turn up
DeleteI can’t say what they are, but I can tell you there is no change to the City-Lordshill end.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThere are major roadworks at the Millbrook roundabout that are causing havoc for everyone. When these go into the third phase, the situation should improve.
DeleteI suspect the change will be at the bus stop at Woolston. They are wrongly using the front bus stop at Bridge Link Road, they should use the one at the back, where the 9, 11 and 13 use, making the other one clogged.
DeleteFirst could also help by putting in a correct timetable for their service 9
DeleteThe roadworks at Millbrook roundabout will not ease until April. The problem will just shift to outbound rush hour once the westbound works start in January. When that finishes, the work at Redbridge begins, which has potential for even greater problems.
DeleteI think it's being rerouted to go through Ocean Village
ReplyDeleteIf they do it, First will have a laugh, saying "we have the most direct route Weston - City Centre and we run every 5 minutes". I hope they do not do it, for some reason, First was just about to pull out from Ocean Village.
DeleteFirst may have the most direct route,however that is not always the way potential passengers may wish to go
DeleteI predict that the exciting route change will be nothing more than a minor change of route termination point in Weston, meaning that buses can wait their time at a place where there is not already a nasty red one parked, and where it will not cause a blockage to the road, due to cars parked illegally opposite the stop.
DeleteYou should go to the bookies and place a bet on it
DeleteIt's just a few changes to improve the reliability of the B*17. No route change, AFAIK, just timing changes.
DeleteChanging the terminus, or any timing point for that matter, would show up as a route change on notices and proceedings - these changes only show as a timetable change.
It hasn't been operating long enough for Bluestar to make any routing changes.
Andi, if it was first running it, it would be withdrawn...
Deletebut Bluestar like to give more time.
Hyperbole, much? First gave the 10 (and then the extended 2) a fair few months before cancelling outright.
DeleteIt would have been pretty clear to First that it wasn't going to make a profit. They were best to cut their losses and cancel the route(s).
The B*17 has only been extended for around 6-7 weeks - which is nowhere near enough time to gather opinion on whether it's going to work or not.
A full refurbishment plan will be coming into place next year for First buses, including adding USB charging to the fleet.
ReplyDeleteExciting times ahead then for First bus users
DeleteIs this to get the buses fit to operate elsewhere, ready for when the firm leaves Southampton?
DeleteExciting to hear they are bringing them up to the standards of 2010.
DeleteFirst have been busy in Slough upgrading the Volvo hybrids they use on the 7 between Slough, Langley and Heathrow Airport.
DeleteUpgrades include reupholstering the seats with a fetching blue moquette (from the brown eLeather) and the fitting of USB chargwrs to all seats.
Pictures here: https://twitter.com/MarcReddy/status/1062622251529453568?s=19
Looks like this could be the upgrade coming to City Reds buses.
There are also some new MMCs on order for the Star routes in Portsmouth, so this may allow for the Streetlites that are circurren on the Star routes to cascade to Southampton tonreplato the Volvo's on thethree.
Where did you hear about First Bus Southampton getting USB Chargers
ReplyDeleteAnd stop going on about First Pulling out of Southampton it won't happen ok and it's a Bus Company I am a enthusiast of
Whether or not you are an enthusiast for them Reece, they have run down their operation here so badly, that they are now reliant on having to rent out a large part of their depot, to third party tenants, just to keep going. Without doubt, their days are numbered, in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteThey may well be renting out the extra space in their depot, but this isn't a sign of desperation - it's just the business sweating their assets (getting the most money out of the stuff they own).
DeleteThat's a good business practice. Plenty of other operators have/had similar deals - Brijan used to rent a corner of their depot (I believe) to Stagecoach for their 69 operation, Reading Buses have Thames Travel and Railair buses/coaches in their depot.
First have a great asset, with their depot being centrally located in Southampton, they're using that to their advantage!
Big things coming for First Southampton in 2019. They may have been behind the last few years but things are about to change.
DeleteWe shall all who view this site look forward to 2019 and the big things that are going to happen at First in Southampton. I think we are all agreed it certainly needs a change of direction that suits potential customers and the ones they have currently in some areas of operation.
DeleteIt has been a long time coming. But things are on the up. After a lot of cuts, including routes, staff members and assets the remaining routes left at First Southamtpton do make profit. The company will not be leaving Southampton as many suggest. As a business profit is what keeps it going so all these cuts had to happen. Now the business has been streamlined investment can happen and things will improve.
DeleteI believe the Volvos will be staying put as they are in the process of being upgraded to Euro 6 spec to meet the upcoming clean air rules. I believe they will be the first to be refurbished next year.
DeleteAlso it is correct that First Southampton rent out parking to other companies and the top floor office space but this isn't used so makes sense to bring extra revenue in from unused assets.
DeleteTwo points to make from the above comments....
DeleteThe unused space at first, is due to their inability to run a decent bus service, and their management incompetence in having to make constant cut backs. When they moved there, the place was hardly big enough for the operation, yet now they have to go begging to other organizations, just to pay their way.
The person saying that the out of date Volvo buses on the three route, can be upgraded to euro 6, is clearly not an engineer. It is almost impossible, and would not be worth the massive investment on such old vehicles.
The upgrade has been funded by the council. I'm unaware of how it's done but it is being done.
DeleteThrowing away taxpayers money yet again to a so termed private firm.Too many taxpayers handouts given to private firms to do this or that
DeleteAnon 8/12/18 23:20. Suggest you check your facts before posting (again!). The 09 reg. Volvos at First are being upgraded, as are some of the 58 reg Scanias at GSC, which are even older and more "out of date" (your words not mine). Yawn........
DeleteTo Anon at 0946: The City has dangerously high levels of air pollution and it's the City Council's job to reduce that.
DeletePolitically they're afraid of a car-based congestion charge so have decided to only target larger, diesel vehicles.
The government has released a pot of money for local authorities and bus operators to upgrade the exhaust systems on older buses to bring them up to Euro 6 standard.
Buses are the most efficient way of transporting large numbers of people through cities like Southampton, so it's only right that they are supported in that purpose.
To Anon at 2320: The Harrogate Bus Company (Transdev Blazefield) recently upgraded their Volvo / Wright Eclipses on "the 1" from Euro 3 to Euro 6. It's perfectly possible.
DeleteThey're 04 plate buses (I believe) which, with a full interior and exterior refurb including reupholstering, free WiFi and USB chargers, feel like they're brand new.
The age of the vehicle is pretty much irrelevant, within reason. It's the quality of the interior, emissions of the engine and reliability of the bus that matter.
Funnily enough, the vast majority of passengers don't read the number plate of an approaching bus...
Politically they're afraid of a car-based conjestion charge you state.So in fact ignore the main polluter and make the lesser pollutor clean up the act.What nonsense this makes.All politicians are interested in is votes and little interest in the enviroment or anything else for that matter in any party you may support
DeleteIndeed I have seen loads on Minibuses inside Empress Road depot mate
ReplyDeleteWatch out for the Itchen Bridge closures planned for Dec 17 & 18 during the night til 6am. Will mean diversion through Bitterne & Northam...
ReplyDeleteThat should make the bluestar late night timetables even more hilarious!
DeleteWhy Hilarious? You are the one hilarious? If it was up to you, the last buses at Southampton would be 8pm. To preserve the traditional British family. Flock off!
DeleteBluestars running times on the 17 are a shambles.
DeleteI've been travelling on the B*17 for the past few days and each bus has been perfectly on time!
DeleteSure, there will be occasions when the buses are delayed - usually thanks to roadworks & congestion - but the timetable seems to be fairly good so far, with just a few tweaks required, as expected for a brand new cross-city service.
Claudio, you have said above, that the late night timetables are too tight and need changing. Then you start being too forceful, and say that they are not! Please keep polite to people. We value much of what you have to say, but telling people to flock off is not acceptable.
DeleteI am referring to the person saying the timetables from Bluestar at night (17 and 18) are hilarious. And they aren’t. They are needed for workers who are finishing/starting shifts.
DeleteOf course the 17 need more time to run without being rushed. And that person Meant the late eve buses are pointless. I am sorry, they aren’t and it pisses me off.
Dont agree ! I read it as they thought the running time was a joke - which on 17 they are - and Bluestar will be changing them to something more realistic.
DeleteI agree with anon at 1822. It appears that yet again, Claudio is getting worked up over very little, which is becoming tedious. We like you mate, but you need to take a step back before diving in.
DeleteFirst have been spinning such yarns to their staff for the last couple of years, in a vain attempt to stop their staff leaving for the blues. If they were intent on hanging around, they would not keep surrendering routes to Bluestar, and would have kept their shop open. Please stop believing the rubbish that they spout, unless it is backed up with action. USB charging is almost a requirement these days, so it is hardly ground breaking news. Even a few brand new buses for the 3 route, will not convince me that they have any long term plans for Southampton. Last year, they told their staff that 2018 would see lots of new buses, and an aggressive new route structure. I wonder whatever happened to those promises?
ReplyDeleteJust to get the accuracy of your comments correct can you post the notice telling staff about these changes etc, or if you cannot post the image of the notice, can you just post the words from it on here - thanks - I think it is fair to say without the detail your comments cannot accurate
DeleteWe haven't been told anything about getting new vehicles. In fact the last time something was mentioned to staff about getting new vehicles was back in 2015 when the 7 branded Streetlites arrived. First Southampton has a fairly modern fleet. The Streetlites may not be everyone's cup of tea but they are cheap to run and are friendly to the environment.
DeleteThe news of new vehicles has come from several first drivers. They are being told these things verbally, to keep them motivated. Double deck apparently. The reality of refurbishing the 09 Volvo's, is another indication of a business that cannot afford to still be here! The drivers tell me that even the heating systems no longer work in them.
DeleteFirst Southampton are very anti double deck they've not long got rid of them all they certainly won't be ordering brand new deckers.
DeleteIt not just southampton that closed fareham got closed the same time.and also further afield penzance and truro were closed when the bus stations were tarted up(the lady who worked in penzance is now a banksperson in truro bus station) so that move has nothing todo with southampton
DeleteFareham still has a bus station
DeleteThe posting is referring to Travel Shops Reece
DeleteIsn't it about time the owner of this blog actually posted articles without the Go Ahead bias and actually comment accordingly. That's what makes a good blog a) impartiality b) healthy comment from the owner of the blog c) a blog owner which stops elements of bullying on here towards various named and unnamed comment owners d) a blog that sticks to the facts and not one which creates arguments about rumour and lies. There are many good blogs out there, namely Transport Focus, Plymouthian Transit etc and they all these blogs feature the attributes above. A good blog is also one where the blogger lives in the area - this gives it the best reality of the area.
ReplyDeleteWhile there is lots of arguing about the fact Blue has USB charging and Wi-Fi; the question should be whether it really is essential?
ReplyDeleteI can fully understand that for BlueStar 1, travelling from Southampton to Winchester would benefit from features of from Southampton to Romsey or Calshot.
But for the core First network it is journeys of what? Typically 20 minutes or less? A 1A USB charger won't give you much of a boost once you sit down and get the cable out of your pocket and then plug it in.
Similarly Wi-Fi might give enough time for phone and bus to handshake, check protocols and maybe buffer a few emails, but nothing really over and above being on your mobile data connection.
So my question would be whether First really needs massive investment in USB, Wi-Fi or even quality real Italian leather seats when the core of their market are no on the bus long enough to make it count!
Most of the public seem happy with the Metro Newspaper.
DeleteThey would be.The British public love reading rubbish or even watching rubbish on television
DeleteOh yes, believe me, 20 min on the bus boosts my battery an hour extra!!! So it is convenient yes.
DeleteUSB charger on buses does vary. Today it was rapid as I was 66% & it was up to 91% within 30 mins. Other times I can be on bus & it's barely charged say 2% after 10 mins so I disconnect USB.
DeleteLord oh lord - some rubbish has been spouted on here. As has been said, the person who reckons that a B7RLE can't be upgraded to Euro VI is talking cobblers - First have just done exactly that to a batch of 2009 B7RLEs to meet the Birmingham CAZ for the 144 Worcester (Salt Road) service.
ReplyDeleteThat means that they can upgrade the current ones in Southampton should they wish. There has been some speculation about the Star Streetlites in Pompey and whether they will be replaced with new e200mmc and whether the Wrights will head to Hoeford or Southampton or elsewhere - however, it is all conjecture.
The First Southampton fleet is pretty modern and new buses aren't likely. Even if they were to get some (and nothing has been intimated), it would certainly not be deckers as Marc Reddy is not a fan of them.
On the subject of USB charging and wifi, you'd better be telling Stagecoach and Go Ahead as they are also specifying that on their urban fleets where journey times are also relatively short....like on the Unilink services.
The Star buses are due for replacement in mid-2019 (https://twitter.com/MarcReddy/status/1061173093178228736?s=19) - it's not been decided where the existing Streetlites will be going though.
DeleteSorry - I should've been a bit clearer. That the Star fleet is being replaced isn't in dispute - it was the type that's replacing (e200mmc though it's a fair guess) and where the Streetlites will be heading that is what I meant when I said it's all conjecture.
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