Talking of Wheelers, they take on several new Hampshire County Council contracts in the new year. They are slowly getting round to posting timetables for the routes they are taking over. Here's the one for the T3 and T4, complete with a misspelling of Cadnam (my yellow highlighting):
Velvet A disappears on 12th January, to be replaced by an extended S1, probably at the S1's lower frequency. Hedge Enders might be forgiven for feeling rather remote.
First have new timetables on routes 1, 2, 3, 7, 8, 9, 11 and 13 from 18th January. Miraculously route 5 survives unchanged. The new timetables can be seen on First's website.
Ringwood gets more remote again from 31st January, when Gardbus 139 is withdrawn.
A challenge to Stagecoach in the Andover Town area-Sould be interesting-PAC
ReplyDeleteWith the reduction on Sundays and Bank Holidays to First service 8 it should also be noted that the Merryoak and Itchen area also get another cut to services in this area-Merryoak and Itchen once had a good service but now seems to be gradually eroding.
ReplyDeleteThe Millbrook bus wars are getting stupid!do we really need so many buses covering exactly the same route,i`m refering to Bluestar 18 and First(We can`t come up with anything original ,so we`ll copy another operators route exactly)Hampshire 2?
ReplyDeleteWell, come on, let's be fair to dear old first, they have only copied half of the blue star 18 route! You are right that they have yet again scored a massive publicity own goal, but they are absolute masters at it... They came up with the fantastic branding to really set route 3 apart, by painting the buses on that route red, and then decided to paint all their new buses red, completely ruining the 3 branding. They now have 3 different liveries, which is confusing the heck out of the general public. It can only be a few more months before they renumber all of their routes again, surely? Maybe they could paint a few buses yellow, and a couple pink? You really could not make up the mess they seem to be making. On a different note, has anyone else heard that Wheelers have won a contract to supply services at Madrid airport? Talk about spreading everything too thinly!
DeleteSo First invest in new buses and you still spread negativity? What's wrong with re-branding high frequency routes such as the 2 and 11 as 'City Red'. Trent Barton and Reading bus for example have won many awards and increased ridership by having different colour buses! If it was confusing the public I'm sure they would have been more confused by the red 'Red 1' branded buses from Salisbury that Bluestar were using recently on the 18! Most people I know just read the number and destination.
DeleteWhy do people have it in for the 2? It always seems to carry a similar loading between the city and Millbrook as the 18. If it was poorly performing than First by now would have done something about it.....
It seems some people just like having a go at First, others Bluestar......Each company has their strengths and faults. I've used both, but normally use First as for the journeys I make (I live in Shirley) they are more frequent, more reliable, the buses are more modern and they're cheaper for a day return into the City.
To be honest first run an OK operation on the high frequency routes but their performance on say the sholing or hedge end to southampton corridor is shocking but then it really is bluestars fault for not noticing these gaps in market - sometimes I wonder if their planners actually live in Hampshire! Hedge end should certainly be protected before wheelers reintroduce their WA ( which is still very much in the pipeline after their new tender commitments begin )
DeleteBluestar planners based in Poole. Arrogant top management not interested in local input.
DeleteIn response to Badgerman, I think there are several points to be made... There can be no doubt that the 3 red branding was absolute genius, but why oh why did they then paint the new vehicles red and completely ruin the 3 branding? Trent and Reading may well have won awards for having different colour buses for individual routes, but First seem to run 3 colours of buses on almost any old route, which is certainly confusing the public. The Salisbury red vehicles seem to have now gone for repaint, but many may view their use on the 18 route with suspicion!
DeleteThe reason so many people have it in for firsts 2 route, is because it adds no value to bus travel within Southampton whatsoever. There was no gap in the market for it, as it runs exactly the same route as the 18, and just serves to clog Shirley with buses that were not needed. There can be no doubt that it was a desperate knee jerk reaction to firsts disastrous incursion on the waterside. Simply, they had to find an easy money spinner, or heads would have rolled. In reality, it probably breaks even, as will the 18 now. Unfortunately, it will ultimately weaken both operators, as reduced profitability cannot help anyone. You state that you use them based on frequency, which is one of the reasons that it will never show a profit. You then state that you use them based on price, yet another reason, why they can't profit, and then you say that you prefer them based on the new vehicles, which is an unsustainable overhead on such an under utilised route. Everything they are doing is reflective of very short term planning. Take a look at the respective share prices of the two groups involved, if you wish to see proof of who investors think is winning the battles...
I would not be too sure that Blue stars planners have not noticed certain gaps in the market, and I understand that next year could see some very interesting new battles develop! I do however agree that more local input may prove an advantage to them.
It's all very boring to be honest. Just remind me what the innovative benefits of BlueStar service 16 are !
DeleteAnonymous at 01:19
Delete"You state that you use them based on frequency, which is one of the reasons that it will never show a profit. You then state that you use them based on price, yet another reason, why they can't profit, and then you say that you prefer them based on the new vehicles, which is an unsustainable overhead on such an under utilised route"
Do you actually know what margins the two operators are making on the corridor, or have you just made all that up?
I can only advise that from my vast experience within the industry, both operators appear to be around break even levels. That is not healthy for either of them. One operates mid life buses, which will be fairly expensive to maintain, but not particularly heavy in depreciation, whilst the other operates brand new vehicles, which depreciate by 20 per cent in year one! Firsts additional burden is a timetabled frequency which is too high for the passenger numbers, a lower fare base, but lower staff cost. If first were to trim the frequency, they would probably show a profit, but would then lose customer base. Which leads me to think that it is another battle that they have started, which they cannot win.... Blue stars 16 is another case in point, but at least the investment is very small compared to firsts kitchen sink approach. As I said above, just compare the share price of the two groups and it will be very clear who the "money men" think has the correct approach to their business plan.
DeleteNew buses generate patronage. Fact. Increased frequencies generate patronage. Fact. Price is an important element of the product. Fact. We can all only speculate on the margins being made by any operator but on the facts above it does look like First have the upper hand.
DeleteBluestar 16 was introduced to serve an area cut of by First,that area being Cobden Avenue.It was also a much faster way from Townhill Park to the city,until First retaliated with the no.12!
DeleteI'd have thought the failure to win any rail franchises is rather more the factor impacting on First's share price.
DeleteVelvet's new S1 and S2 times are as photos on their new Facebook page. The website does not appear to be being update even with the links to Facebook, twitter etc. The revised S1 is hourly through out and the S2 has a minor route change.
ReplyDeleteYes you will also notice that on the S2 there is a journey missing-I have informed them of this a few weeks ago,but as they now rarely answer any comments it has not been changed-PAC
ReplyDeleteI notice the H1/H2 timetable to be operated by Wheeler's Travel shown on Traveline from 5th January 2015,still operates Monday to Friday-Also Bluestar have informed me as to no change at present to the peak hour 11 extension from/to Cadnam-It remains rather like a withered arm.
ReplyDeleteSince my posting yesterday,I note today in looking at Traveline the H1 has for the moment been removed,but the H2 is shown now with the service as running in the New Year as Mondays,Wednesdays and Fridays.
DeleteThe earlier comment on the wheelers hedge end route is true - a driver told me a couple of weeks ago that they halted the idea in September so they could focus on Salisbury they were going to reintroduce it from January but then they got a huge amount of tendered work so they have halted the route until September ( earlier if their new routes don't present to many problems )
ReplyDeleteThat's the new timetable for Andover to Stockbridge... two buses per day each way. Wow.
ReplyDeleteI remember many of those buses being busy back before the last timetable change, even on a Saturday. Really is closure by stealth.
Busy? What, during the 1960's?
DeleteI mean I remember every seat in the bus being filled - not packed, but respectably busy for a rural route. Just a few years ago.
DeleteThe futues bright,The futures Orange,Well at least while the taxpayer is paying for it.
ReplyDeleteDetails of Stagecoach bus services changes on Hampshire from January 2015 are available via a link on Stagecoach Bus Facebook page-They make interesting reading-PAC
ReplyDeleteVery interesting reading. A pity that Stagecoach doesn't seem to want to try to stimulate commercial growth in certain underserved areas but seems content to tread water instead.
DeleteTheir incredible risk aversion is a contrast to the neighbouring South East operation which has seen years of organic growth, and bodes ill for Norfolk Green which is also managed by Andrew Dyer. NG has seen no investment aside from cascaded in tat from elsewhere since Stagecoach took over.
DeleteAccording to Stagecoach’s link there is no change to the 46 ????
ReplyDelete4pd to North Baddesley and return http://www.travelinesoutheast.org.uk/se/TTB/EFA04__00003ae0_TP.pdf
DeleteStagecoaches almost total withdraw (64 excepted which seems to be unchanged) is what I expected, although I did hope they might lay on a final run of the 1,3,5 at 20:00 ish in compensation - but alas no.
Slight correction 4pd to North Baddesley and 3pd in return.
DeleteSeems Stagecoach aren't willing to play the game whereby the local authority pulls the funding and hopes the operator will continue to run it at a loss.
DeleteFair enough I suppose, it's not a function of the 1985 Transport Act for operators to cover when councils are p!ssing about, though of course the passengers are the real losers.
46
DeleteThe report passed by HCC on the 27th October 2014 states that there will be 4 buses each day in BOTH directions. So why does traveline only show 3 buses in to Winchester and why does the link on Stagecoach's web site show that the 46 is not included in the list of cut backs. Nor is there a new timetable for the 46 hidden away at the back of Stagecoach's web site as a pdf file. One wonders just what is going on here as the passengers using the 46 must be thinking that the cut backs do not apply to them.
New times for Xelabus now being shown on Traveline-I don't know why the show X4 as serving Barton Peveril in the evenings when Xelabus have staed they will run direct via Southampton Roadand now no X7 on Sundays/Bank Holidays-Still there is always the train Eastleigh to Chandler's Ford to fall back on-Nothing shown as yet for X8-PAC
ReplyDeleteThere is a dash where Barton Peveril timing point is shown so they don't on those journeys serve the college. There is a Sunday service. I called Traveline and they said that was an error and they will put them on.
DeleteI have just checked Traveline at 0925 this morning and on what the X4 shows me it still shows the late evening journeys as serving Barton peveril College-PAC
DeleteCorrection to the above,I have looked again and yes the timetable is correct-I had entered the bottom version of X4 which is the current timetable, but note for this new timetable it's the top version,whereas it's usual for new timetables to be put after the current times-Teach me to read more careful in future-PAC
DeleteStagecoach have now this morning put the 46 on the Stagecoach Bus link as included in changes to services in Hampshire due to HCC cuts-PAC
ReplyDeleteThanks PAC.
DeleteThe problem now is that the Stagecoach web site is down
and it seems to have been down for some hours.
It was down this morning but came back on about 1100-I presume it was down whilst thet added the 46-PAC
DeleteIt seems to be back for the moment (hopefully not tempting fate).
DeleteYes, it came back about 15 mins ago.
DeleteRight, now one can clearly see the new timetable for the 46 and it seems at first glance to be the same as the one on Traveline.
Now the HCC report which was passed on the 27th October clearly says the following: ( appendix 1 dated 27-10-2014 ) :- 46 Reduced from 5/7 ( that is 5 into Winchester and 7 out ) to 4 JOURNEYS EACH WAY between Winchester and North Baddesley.
So one asks where is the fourth bus coming into Winchester on this new timetable ??
I have just tried ringing Chichester, but there is a long queue of people waiting to get through.
Well nothing to do with the 46, but it was also stated that the Bluester 11 extension from/to Cadnam would be withdrawn,however for the moment this is not so-In the case of the 46 someone must have the answer to your enquiry,but here again as in so many places it does not tie up with what was supposed to be agreed-Not very good news for the start of 2015 for many passengers-In Winchester the buses will finish about 1900,but on Thursday,Fridays and Saturdays we have this strange 5A route,but hardly any buses between 1900 and 2100 to take anyone into Winchester for the night out-It looks like an attempt to sabotage any travel by bus in many areas wether for work,shopping,leisure or any other activity-The funny side of this is that the election that people voted a government in, with the promise to privitise the bus industry,with the promise of better services, those voters who voted in droves for this,now have the most effect with reduced bus services or none at all-It shoiuld be noted that most politicians spend most of their lives grovelling for money or votes as they are at present until after the next election when they will fall silent until the next election.
DeleteThe 5A is funded by the city council, so not subject to the HCC cuts. With regard to the 46 I wouldn't be surprised if there is another timetable out there somewhere - I know I have seen 3 different current timetables for the same stop before now on a different Stagecoach route.
DeleteHere's a challenge...
ReplyDeleteThe cuts in the Fleet and Blackwater Valley area see the Fleet Buzz daytime service reduced from a requirement for 13 buses to just five. One of many consqeucnes is that the town of Fleet (population 30,000+) now only has one hourly bus service, and half of the town no longer has any buses at all.
The question is, can anyone identify a cut elsewhere in Hampshire which is more savage than this one?
68 Winchester to Stockbridge.
DeleteThis service has been cut from 6/7 on weekdays
and 5/5 on Saturdays. To no buses at all.
The result is that Stagecoach are having to put on
2 buses into Winchester and 2 buses out to
Stockbridge on college days only, for the students
and anyone else who would like to travel with them
72 Reading-Aldershot
DeleteHourly service between Fleet and Aldershot rerouted to Farnborough. Replaced by one school journey each way on route 415 extended from Fleet to Weybourne only.
Within the whole rough triangle from Salisbury-Andover and Winchester it would seem services have been decipated-Still I suppose most have their own transport nowadays
Delete26 Hedge End - Fareham From a roughly 105 min freq M-Sat to NOTHING!
DeleteThe 68 has largely been replaced by Wheelers 16 serving Houghton, Broughton & Stockbridge in a similar fashion to how the through 68 to Salisbury used to - though of note Houghton
Delete& Broughton are now request stops on one of the return trips..
There are 2 complete return journeys and 3 odd school day trips, one of which starts in Salisbury and returns to Stockbridge, another is a Stockbridge to Winchester return and the third is an afternoon Winchester to Salisbury with not return.
http://wheelerstravel.co.uk/web_media/File/16salisbury&houghtontowinchester.pdf
Although this doesn't in itself make it much harder, combined with the X7 changes it has become really quite difficult to get from Winchester to Salisbury since the 68 no longer goes there, and there now being almost no service to Andover to change onto the 8. Intending passenger now must go via Whitchurch and Andover or via Southampton on the X7 with no significant time difference in eithe - that is until now at least.
Unfortunately the whole Test Valley area is difficult to serve adequately by bus, especially being sparsely populated with many villages away from the main roads. You have a choice of providing quick services along the main roads which serve few villages en route, or serving all the villages with significantly slower journey times and more unattractive routes. Fortunately those wanting just to travel between the major towns and cities bordering the area have a reasonably frequent train service that they can use with competitive journey times.
DeleteIn a word, no. Fleet seems to be one of those awkward areas that has traditionally been served by barely a few hourly routes for years, and where various recent permutations have been tried and failed, thus leaving a core basic commercial service that will not be particularly viable or attractive and once again leaves the town poorly connected to the local area. Probably a different approach is needed, but the perennial question is what.
ReplyDeleteSTOP PRESS... Owners of Velvet purchase Western National in Cornwall.!!
ReplyDeleteThat would be Western Greyhound. Western National is already owned by First.
DeleteThe Stagecoach changes are now showing on the HCC site-Only ones not showing yet are Velvet and Wheeler's Travel-PAC
ReplyDeleteLooks as if the Wallops in Hampshire have taken a real walloping from the New Year-New service will be number 14 operated by Wheeler's Travel-(Shown on Traveline)-PAC
ReplyDeleteI do like the way First planners juggle around the times to fit the service in-At present the 13 has 11 minutes running time from Bitterne to Woolston and return most of the day-From January 2015 changes it will be increased by a few minutes each way which is ok-However the 8 which on Sundays/Bank Holidays runs the same route between the two points, and has at present 11 minutes running time each way, will see it reduced to 8 minutes each way-It's going to need a super fast driver on Sundays/Bank Holidays, as in my experience it's hard enough at the present 11 minutes on Sundays/Bank Holidays-PAC
ReplyDeleteI always suspected some of their timetables to be somewhere between aspirational and fictional!
DeleteOr maybe they have forgotten that the 8 runs a different route on Sundays,,,,,,
DeleteI note the Wheeler's site is now showing more services to be operated from January 2015-Most show also a road by road route description which is handy-The route that was to be 14 Andover to Salisbury seems to have reverted back to 87-However the site is not fully displayed yet so we will have to wait and see-PAC
ReplyDeleteIn quickly looking at Traveline I must presume it has been renumbered back to 87, otherwise Wheeler's Travel woud have two 14 routes in Salisbury-Still at the moment being shown as 14 on Traveline-PAC
ReplyDelete