Bluestar have a few changes from Sunday, so let's summarise what they are:
1: Weekday morning peak journeys are retimed to improve reliability. Moves to stop CU on Hanover Buildings.
2: Moves to stop CT on Hanover Buildings.
11: Early evening journeys that currently terminate at Goodies will continue round the loop to Calmore Corner.
16: Weekday peak journeys are retimed to improve reliability. Moves to stop CT on Hanover Buildings.
18: Rerouted to serve Kingsway again on journeys from Hightown towards Millbrook.
bluetar should have changed the route of the 16,so that it covered townhill way-a very popular bus stop,at the big cheese roundabout!
ReplyDeleteI am amazed no-one is talking about Bluestars impending fare rises. 40% on kids weekly passes! Fuel has gone down in the last 10 months (yes, 10 months since the last rises), and their wage rise was minimal.....
ReplyDeleteplus anon,bluestar forcing key cards on everyone.should you not wish to have one and just buy a monthly pass-in ticket form ,they rip you off an extra £8 quid a month ,in southampton!
ReplyDeleteI would imagine thats just good business sense, to keep people in the bluestar club. I feel that you should express it the other way round, that they give people who make life easier for everyone (by topping up online and reducing cash handling), an £8 discount?
DeleteIts widely rumoured that First, having failed to make an impact with their 11 route, is possibly about to register a competitive service against Bluestars 9. That being the case, I do hope they know the proportion of clients already in the bluestar club, otherwise they could be in for another embarrassment of a challenge, unless they are in it for the very longterm!
Theres big changes coming to Firsts 11 and x2, anyone know anything about these?
ReplyDeleteIF there are big changes, how would you know about them please? Something has to change with them both though, as they must be losing an absolute fortune!
Deletethe moment first pull out of marchwood,you can bet bluestar will axe most of their services too!!!
DeleteI think just about everybody agrees with this statement. Its pretty obvious really! The one area that they will keep on (at least for the duration of Firsts Hythe subsidy), will be Calshot and Fawley, to make sure that First derive very little benefit from running the Hythe local services. I feel that First cannot offer any kind of backup out on the waterside when things go wrong. A few weeks ago, one of their buses broke down and it took an eternity to remove it, as the First fitter had to get through all the town traffic, and then through all the Millbrook traffic before he could even start to get down the waterside. Bluestar having a facility at Totton makes it far easier to access a response for them. I just feel that First have overextended their operating area without thinking of the consequences first! How did they ever think that they could compete out on the waterside? Madness!
DeleteI was talking to a First Drive whilst they was on a course Mark Reddy joined them someone asked if the 11, x2 are going, he just said there staying but with big changes... dont know what or when though....
DeleteUnfortunately, there will be an element of face saving going on with any plan to try to preserve these services. Whilst the X2 stood a chance of working, no matter what they do with the 11, it wont work and Bluestar will slam the door shut again. I dont know who came up with the idea of the 11, but they certainly should not still be employed! There will be some serious job preservation tactics taking place....
DeleteWhen you say Bluestar will slam the door shut what you really mean is Bluestar will run lots of unprofitable journeys at times that they themselves had refused to do just six months earlier before competition arrived? Remember Bluestar couldn't run a Sunday service commercially to Marchwood when the tender was cut but can suddenly now when faced with competition. It also couldn't run anything better than an hourly service to Marchwood on weekdays but can now justify a half hourly commercial service when there is competition.
DeleteBluestar tried these tactics in Boyatt Wood and Fair Oak against Velvet, it worked against a small family owned business but may not against a larger plc with deeper pockets. And whilst Bluestar are tied up on the 8 route they could leave themselves exposed elsewhere, I hear the 3 to Hedge End has a very short lifespan, what will be the next Bluestar route to wither and die?
If First's incursion into the Waterside achieves just or thing it will be to have saved council tax payers £90,000 a year as that is what Bluestar were ranting from the council in subsidies before First arrived on the 8 route. I don't think anyone at First needs to worry about their jobs just yet.
You, or other anons with similar views, keep labouring these same points about Bluestar and Marchwood. They are absolutely correct! Bluestar will drop Marchwood like a stone when First back off. First cannot justify the huge costs incurred by their venture onto the waterside, neither can they provide any back up out there when breakdowns occur. Bluestar have just protected their own operating area, and left First in no doubt that they will be repelled. Bluestar have also sent very strong signals that they will protect their market at all costs, by increasing frequency to Totton and Calmore, and attacking First in Townhill and Woolston (which is doing much better than you may be aware!). If what I hear is correct, First may be in for another shock in the coming weeks, in another area that they may consider to be safe.....
DeleteAll it will take to stop this madness, is for First to sack the person responsible for the ridiculous decision to try the 11 route, and withdraw, which WILL happen, and we can all get back to running sensible profitable services. Should they decide to try to save face, by keeping going for a while, I fear many jobs will be lost on all sides, when the curtain finally falls, as both operators involved will have invested far too much in this ridiculous battle.
Bluestar failed to protect Hedge End, withered from every 20 minutes to hourly and carrying fewer by the day. Why exactly does First need to sack anyone? The 11 is a good attempt and earning them lots of positive praise, I understand the Marchwood residents are campaigning to keep First such is the dislike of Bluestar and everyone fears if First goes Bluestar will withdraw all the extra services and hike the ridiculous ares up again.
DeleteYou need to understand the timelines. Blue star registered to go to Townhill Park before First registered to go to the Waterside.... Therefore Blue Star are the unnecessary aggressor !
DeleteYes, they registered it first, after (allegedly!) being tipped off by the council about Firsts plans with the 11. You have to remember that they have a very good relationship there! Bluestar will now be very aggressive, until this nonsense stops.
DeleteSadly, positive praise is all First will ever get out of the Marchwood situation, and for anyone to see it as a good attempt, is, in my opinion, seeing it through very rose tinted specs. It was very poorly thought through, as Bluestar couldnt make a brass farthing out of the route, even with the reduced frequency, so how on earth First thought that they could is beyond me. There is very little strength of feeling towards anyone in Marchwood, as there are not enough paying customers to make up strength! Bluestars fares have never been an issue here, and irrespective of when First give up, Bluestar would never change fares on a single route. They will however settle back to an hourly frequency, which is more than the custom out there probably warrants. The only purpose of the upgraded frequency is to see First back off of an area that they would always struggle to serve, with their only depot on the wrong side of the City centre. I am certain that when this is all over, First will dismiss the person(s) responsible, due to the lack of forsight shown and the massive financial losses incurred.
I can only agree with you about the Hedge End situation, however Bluestar seem to be playing this whole game to their strengths (ie where they have the capacity and the depots), rather than the First strategy of a scattergun approach of new routes way outside of where they can reasonably offer a service.
Very odd to think anyone will be sacked for designing route 11, having known many of the people in the Commercial team that most definitely won't happen. Remember the former Go South Coast commercial manager now works for First who will have intimate knowledge of Bluestar's strengths and weaknesses so it will be interesting to see where they go next. You are so focused on how much money First are loosing but remember Bluestar must be hemoraging twice as much and they are a smaller business so can afford it least.
DeleteNetwork design is not solely about depot location, the Bluestar 4 and 18 run nowhere near their home depots but that does not cause significant undue hindrance. First's depot is not on the 'wrong side' of the city centre, that would place it Woolston, it is approximately a mile north of the city centre which can be avoided by using Lodge Road, Archers Road, etc to Millbrook. The route also has some of their best vehicles on it so from what I've heard reliability is not an issue. On the other hand I've heard Totton have been struggling for vehicles recently, loosing a lot of trips on the 9 to keep the pointless battle up on the 8.
You make some interesting points. As we both know, First and Go Ahead are massive groups, and neither will be harmed in any way by this little spat. Yes, the individual profit margins of both local operations will be down as a result of the fighting going on, but overall there will be no big impact.
DeleteAgain you are correct about the old Go Ahead staff now employed by First, which makes the selection of Marchwood as a target even more surprising! It smacks of desperation to come up with new ideas, but if this is anything to go by, they wont be in a job much longer, as to even the biggest optomist, its a dead duck and was fatally flawed from the outset.
Whilst I agree that the 18 does not run within the vicinity of Bluestar depots, the frequency of the service means that any downtime is barely noticed. On the other hand, the 4 route is covered by both depots, and Romsey is about 12 minutes from Totton! I do still feel that Firsts inner city depot is a drawback to attempting to operate Waterside services, as at rush hour, even accounting for your route, its likely to take the best part of an hour to get to Hythe, whereas Totton depot would probably make it out there in 20 minutes quite easily.
Finally, I can assure you that there is no shortage of stock at Totton, and no trips on the nine route have been lost to prop up the 8. Should there ever be a choice to be made, I would imagine that the 8 would be cut every time!! You are correct of course that First employ some of their best vehicles on the 11 route, as they need to compete with the Bluestar Mercedes fleet, which is of a similar age and condition.
No shortage of stock at Totton - tell that to passengers on the 4 route having to put up with mini buses at peak times because the regular full size (and fully loaded) singles are not available.
DeleteI believe only 3 weekday journeys are covered by Eastleigh and 1 of these is the 2320 ex Soton
Yes, of course it will happen on odd occasions. We have all seen a small bus operating a 4, or a 9, but its hardly an everyday thing, now is it? If a bus suddenly develops a defect, would you rather that they substituted a small bus that was available in town, and ran the service, or not bother at all? There really is no shortage of stock at Totton, so please dont create a problem for the sake of it, to have a bash at Bluestar. They try really hard to run a great service, and when its not great, they at least try to make it acceptable!
DeleteHATE travelling with first!those screens between you and the driver make me feeel uneasy!as if i`m taking a trip through a rough area in london,late at night!bluestar dont use them ,which is great!
ReplyDeleteBluestar dont need them, as their drivers are human! Screens alienate the driver completely and are a silly idea in this nice safe area.
Delete...said Clive Shutler spokesperson for the Bluestar fan club. You posted the same trolling comment on FIrst Hampshire Facebook page a few days after a driver of theirs gets robbed. I've known drivers get assaulted by some of the scum who exist in our society. I've also known Bluestar drivers get assaulted, probably by the same scum. I know which company looked after their drivers better and it's not the one you are an avid member of the unofficial fan club....
Deletethe person you mentioned has also been critical of bluestar too!
DeleteI can only swear on my own childrens lives, that I am not Clive Shutler (whoever he may be), and I have never visited the First Hampshire facebook page! You are entitled to your opinion about the virtues of screens, but I think they alienate drivers and actually encourage the thought of assault.
Deleteanon (29th)-totally agree!!anon(28th,21.00).shopkeepers are more likely to be attacked on a regular basis,especially those refusing cigs and alcohol to underage teens!should all staff in shops be separated behind screens from customers as well?you said that a driver got robbed on a firstbus ,which has these screens ,so the screen was`nt much use then was it !!!!
DeleteShop workers rarely work alone whereas bus drivers are always working alone late at night in some dodgy areas. Regardless of what you think about the screens they were put there for a very good reason.
DeleteIts all about mental attitude. There are also good reasons why Bluestar remove them from any bus joining their fleet. They dont work! When a driver feels that he is "protected", he will often be more bullish towards the customer. That brings it own problems. CCTV is a far better weapon.
DeleteIf assault screens don't work why do so any inner city operators fit them? The reason Bluestar don't fit them and First do is no doubt down to the different markets they serve. With the exception of the 18 Bluestar don't serve the sink estates in the city that First do and I've seen my fair share of trouble on the 18, CCTV or no CCTV. Don't Brighton and Go North East buses have assault screens? I assume they work there!
Deletemillbrook and thornhill are both rough estates!!stop making excuses for first,spending loads on screens ,then increasing fares to pay for it!!!in the case of the incident on a firstbus in townhill park.the yobs forced their way onto the bus.how is that protecting customers?only staff?i think thats the original point being made.
DeleteThe point that I was attempting to make about screens (and sorry to repeat myself here), was that the driver often acts as if he is protected, and the change in attitude can make him appear arrogant to clients. I have no idea whether screens are fitted in other Go ahead group vehicles, and I do accept your point about certain areas possibly needing them, however our estates in Southampton are pussycats compared to other areas such as North and East London.
DeleteAny evidence fares BECAUSE assault screens are fitted? No? Thought not. Next you'll be saying fares rise because buses get repainted...
DeleteI've driven buses with and without assault screens, whilst in 99.9% of journeys I've never felt the need for them there have been odd occasions when I've been glad its there because of a passengers behaviour towards me,on these occasions it wasn't late at night nor in rough estates, the scum who think they are above the law won't take any notice of CCTV cameras or notices threatening prosecution. My be behaviour does not change when driving a bus with an assault screen, I've never noticed my colleagues behaviour change either. We do not somehow become braver or arrogant just because a piece of plastic is there and it is nonsense to suggest so. Does the little old lady behind the post office counter become brave or arrogant just because there is a piece of glass between them? No of course not and bus drivers are the same.
Deletei wont feed the troll at 07.50,31 jan!either a troll or extremly thick!!!
DeleteI could not disagree with you more about 07.50,31. Its a very valid question. Someone suggested that First put up their fares because of the cost of fitting screens to their buses. To my mind, that is absolute nonsense. The poster was also suggesting this I think?
DeleteI think I'm being accused of being thick by someone who doesn't appear to be remotely capable of using correct grammar and punctuation, the irony is not lost on me ;-)
DeleteBut was it you who mentioned the cost of screens raising fares, or accusing someone of being thick and a troll? Its getting far too complicated for even someone with a whole brain, with all the anons on here! Anon.....
DeleteBeing a driver for First, I'd rather have a screen and not need it, than not to have a screen and need it!!
DeleteThey are finishing with the 63 at Winchester as they under priced their tender and again must be losing money each day. A driver for Xela said they have got it back and it fits in better on their duties
ReplyDeleteThe above post has lost me.... Who are finishing with the 63 at Winchester? How would a Xelabus driver know of anything, before its published at VOSA?
DeleteFirstbus have given the 63 service up. It was re-tendered and Xela awarded it. The driver was told because he is doing it. The change starts apparently on 17th Feb and it IS in Vosa N&P.......
ReplyDeleteRubbish, HCC made a technical error in their procurement process invalidating the contract award and Xelabus won it on retendering. The error was down to HCC and none of the operators who had bid although it will be interesting to see how long Xelabus stick at it this time, last time was a shocking 4 days!
DeleteThanks for the clarification on that. I couldnt find the app on VOSA, which is why I asked. I bow to your greater knowledge on this and appreciate your answer.
DeleteYour attitude to Xelabus stinks. How can you say this lasted 4 days?? Where do you get this from? Its TOTALLY incorrect!!!!!
DeleteI quote from the following publicly accessible report from Hampshire County Council in reference to route 63:
Delete"2.3. After operating the service for 4 days, Xelabus informed Hampshire County
Council of their intention to give notice on the contract"
Available at http://www3.hants.gov.uk/councilmeetings/advsearchmeetings/meetingsitemdocuments.htm?sta=0&pref=Y&item_ID=4104&tab=2
I didn't say the service only lasted 4 days, I said it was shocking they only gave it 4 days before jacking the contract in. Perhaps the only thing that stinks is your inability to check your facts?
This is totally incorrect and I have spoken to HCC who have stated this was incorrect. Xela ran the service for a longer period before giving HCC any notice period. So that is from the manger himself who I checked with by contacting him my self so perhaps you should rethink your own made up statement!
DeleteOh dear, so HCC are lying in their own report put before a committee and published for all to see? Have you even followed the link? Bearing in mind I posted the link at 21:59 and you responded just 7 minutes later at 22:06. HCC and Xelabus offices would have been closed so who exactly did you speak to who admitted the published documents are wrong? Or are you just trolling?
DeleteXela ran the service for longer because they had to give notice contractualy but still gave notice on the contract only four days after starting. Their reason given for terminating the contract was it wasn't financially viable because they didn't win another contract which they could combine, if this is the case they would have known this at the time of contract award (before the contract commenced) so why not turn it down then and it would have passed to the bidder who came second? Save HCC wasting money retendering the service and wasting money in the process?
Not the first time Xela had got their sums wrong, no doubt given their track record of chopping and changing services it won't be the last.
Are you some kind of idiot anon at 2206? How can the statement be made up? Its a copy and paste verbatum from a document in the link anon at 2159 provided? I guess you are some sad xelabus apologist.
DeleteI can't believe what an idiot you are!!!!!
DeleteI spoke to HCC when they issued the minute - so not within 7 mins - burke!! I know for 100% assurance that Xela did NOT give notice after 4 days!!!!! Xela management tell me the network is stable and here to stay. They are working with HCC on further network changes from the summer and also with HCC on new marketing ideas to promote travel and the 63 is included. Now why don't you wind your neck in and leave it to the professionals to put messages on here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
Given the incoherent rant by Anon at 0823 I'm not sure who he thinks is professional but its clearly not him. I know who I believe, a document published by a local authority or the ranting of Anon who is struggling to write in coherent English, hmmm! For the record what does your second sentence mean?
DeleteI do enjoy reading your comments which are so incorrect its untrue.... a ranting Anon eh??? What does the 2nd sentence mean?? Well as you are the obvious professional it is rather obvious what it says or perhaps its a bit too technical for you.... You have no idea being such an amateur about public transport.
DeleteWorking for Hampshire County Council in the department concerned I do enjoy reading this blog and the comments are usually interesting too, I normally don't bother commenting but I do feel I need to at this time. The document published by the County is quite clear about the history of the 63 route. The statement made in the document regarding Xelabus decision to terminate after four days is correct. To suggest the County would publish deliberately misleading allegations is completely false. We work hard with all operators and wish to deliver the best possible outcome for the passenger when tendering bus services. I trust this puts the matter to bed.
DeleteAs the owner of Xelabus I do from time to time look at this site as it does have some interesting items for discussion. However the debate about my company now looking to operate route 63 and 63A on behalf of HCC is a matter between us and no one else. We at Xelabus are proud of where we have got to in such a short time and intend to improve our services to the public where opportunities arise as well as work with HCC. Take it from me Xela is here to stay with a network that will remain stable.
DeleteA network that will remain stable? Its a lovely soundbite, but hardly a reflection of your track record to date! In fact, I would give a personal opinion, that yours has proven to be the least stable network of any local operator for many, many years!
DeleteWe have trialled various routes and now created a network which will see stability and we are looking at growth going forward. The only changes that are likely will include the town services as part of the HCC and EBC review and consultation in May. Our new timetable book due out early March will be our commitment to as I say a stable network.
DeleteI am intrigued by the comments coming out from Xelabus. To call it a network is almost a sin under trades descriptions, surely? It appears to the observer, to be a hotch potch of routes, slotted in between their contract work. To publish a timetable in March, and then say that the only changes will include town services, seems mighty strange? Do they run anything but town services? Some commitment! It occurs to me that the whole operation is set up in the hope of a sell off in the future, with the owners retiring to some warm place..... If there is another long term business plan, they are hiding it well.
DeleteI heard that Xelabus mistakenly thought they would get revenue from scholars on the 63 - failing to notice that they had to carry them as part of the contract. Hence dropped after 4 days ! Just the rumour !
DeleteIf any of the above people wish to meet us and discuss their concerns please feel free to call our office and make an appointment.
DeleteXelabus Limited
To Gareth / Phil / whoever is the M.D. of Xelabus this week...
DeleteYou state a new timetable book is due out in March, isn't that a waste of paper given the consultation ending in May is likely to generate further changes or is it a case that you don't have a timetable out for your current network in which case big black mark. Either way it doesn't convince me the network is stable, sorry.
This was exactly the point that I made above. Xelabus seem very good at soundbites, but lack credability in my view. Even the offer of face to face discussions above, would seem to suggest that they would prefer privacy, rather than an open debate in the public domain?
DeleteAnother First bus bites the dust at Portchester. When are their drivers and for that management going to learn... just shows what a rubbish outfit they are.....
ReplyDeleteAnd no other bus operator has ever had a driver hit a bridge? I can think of one operator in Hampshire that had the misfortune of buses involved in three fatalities in 12 months at least two resulted in driver prosecutions or another operator more recently suffering two vehicle fires completely destroying the vehicles.
DeleteI only know of one fire that destroyed a bus at Calmore. There has not been another complete loss by this operator, assuming we are talking about the same operator?
Deletethe only decent operator we have in the southampton area is velvet!the rest are awlful!
DeleteThanks for that well reasoned and presented arguement! It may help if you use capital letters, and check your spelling of words like awful....
DeleteI was somewhat surprised by the person who said decent operator being Velvet... have you not seen the state of their buses nd that orange bus which is disgusting???? And as for service well if you read their twitter sight its full of apologies for breakdowns??????
Deleteanon 30 jan 01.39-get a life!!!!
DeleteSorry for any offence caused, but I was attempting to point out that IF you punctuate correctly, and give good reasons for your opinions, people may respond in a more agreeable manner. You may also persuade readers that you are correct. Sadly, those who are unable to do so, are often ridiculed.
DeleteI might be wrong here but didn't X-bus dump that same route a while back,and First had to pick it up? Seems like the route is money-losing waste of time?
ReplyDeleteHCC issued incorrect financial information apparently and Xela gave notice. The information I have been given is that First had same problem. HCC have asked Xela to take it back on at adjusted costs.....
ReplyDeleteHmmm...bit of a farce then. The costs of fitting all those new bus stop flags and printing timetables must be adding to the finacial losses for the route.
ReplyDeleteThe new reroute on the 18 is soo annoying!!! Why would they change it back to the old route when there is a reason they stopped using it in the first place? Makes me late for everything and is very unpractical.. Nobody uses the Kingston stops!! Blue star, who the other route was so much better!
ReplyDeleteVery simple really.... It saves about 7 minutes running time and cuts out one of the main reasons for buses bunching. Cant see them changing this back. Why not just take the bus thats 8 minutes earlier?
Deleteanon (29 jan 13.21) is correct.portland terrace is always getting jammed up,esp.at weekends.timetables were hard to keep to esp on the 18 early eve.
DeleteRegarding the 63 route HCC supply the bus stops, and they advertise it in their booklets so its only a change of company. The villages of Morestead and Owslebury would be lost without this link
ReplyDelete