Friday 2 March 2012

New First network: Destinations revealed!

The first batch of new First routes from 29th April are as follows:

1 Weston-Lordshill/Nursling
3 Lordshill-Thornhill
4/X4 City Centre-Locks Heath-Gosport/Fareham/Portsmouth (starts a week earlier on 22nd April)
5 Bassett Green-Sholing
6 City Centre-Hamble
7 City Centre-Townhill Park
8 General Hospital-Hedge End/Botley
9 City Centre-Sholing
S1 RSH Hospital-Lordshill North

The big theme is that cross-city routes are back in fashion, after several years of snapping them in two, forcing people to change buses to cross the city. The S1 looks like a simple renumbering of the 21, which we had thought was exempt from the shake up. We don't have any more details yet, so the exact routes and frequencies are not known and we assume more new routes are to be announced. No mention yet of Totton: could First be on the retreat just months after extending the 4 to Totton College?

It looks like we will still have duplicated route numbers between operators too, although as a commenter to the last post pointed out, it was originally Bluestar who started the mildly confusing  practise of using route numbers already in use by another operator.

We'll let you know as soon as we hear any more.

28 comments:

  1. I think the Totton service will be the missing number 2. First Hampshire have said there is a number 2, but the VOSA have not published it yet.

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  2. I think there is a place for a bus connecting

    general hospital
    shirley-
    then via howard rd/lodge rd-
    portswood-
    st denys-
    townhill-
    big cheese-
    bitterne shops
    woolston


    but I don't have the money to set up a bus company and try this route.

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  3. So Lets see here.
    By the looks the new 1 route will replace the current 1 and 17 routes
    The new 2 route may replace the current 4 route
    The new 3 route will replace the current 10 route.
    The new 4/X4 route will replace the current 72/80 routes
    The new 5 route will replace the current 7 and 11/12 routes
    The new 6 route will replace the current 16 route
    The new 7 route will replace the current 3 route
    The new 8 route will replace the current 5 and 8A route
    The new 9 route will replace the current 11/12 route
    The new S1 route will replace the current 21 route.

    All seems OK but what will be replacing the current 8 route and the current 9 route?

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    Replies
    1. Just to change this a bit,
      The new 5 route I think will take the current 12 route so will go to Sholing via Woolston
      And the 9 route will go to Sholing via Bitterne
      But this is just my opinion

      And just to add what I think will also be there
      New service 10: City to Harefield (replaces current 9)
      New service 11: Lordshill to Midanbury/Townhill (replaces current 8 Lordshill to Midanbury/Townhill only)
      New service 12: Lordshill to City (replaces
      current 8 Lordshill to City only)

      Or possibly but a bit of a long shot due to different frequencies on the timetable (Service 2 will do Totton to City to Harefield to combine the current 4 and 9 routes into one)

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    2. ME again making one other alteration

      "The new 2 route may replace the current 4 route"
      In Hill Lane the route will go Along Archers Road and then the current 5 into the City Centre

      The new 8 route will replace the current 5 and 8A route
      "In Hill Lane this route will NOT go along Archers Road and will continue down Hill Lane and then go to the Central Station and City centre)

      Why I changed this is because I remembered the 8A starts at the station and not at the city centre

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    3. Good detective work, but I'm thinking that with the whole network being revamped, we should expect something different than just the existing routes covered by different route numbers.

      So far only one route has been announced terminating at Townhill Park. My guess is the new 7 will run via Portswood and that the 8 will run round Townhill Park on its way to Hedge End.

      New 8 will terminate at Aldermoor but I think this will be a modification of one of the current high frequency Lordshill routes rather than bumping the old 5 up to match the old 8's frequency. Lordshill could be left with fewer buses overall as a result.

      I'm also expecting some kind of merger of the existing 4 and 5 in the Hill Lane/Bellemoor area. Both have been cut back in recent years and this trend will most likely continue.

      No clue yet as to how Harefield will be covered. Changes also likely in either Peartree or Merry Oak.

      This is all just speculation for now, but of course we'll bring you the confirmed details as and when we get it.

      Delete
  4. How about a bus to TESCO Bursledon via BITTERNE & not everything going through Woolston. Current 9 extended a little would be great! Probably won't happen though!

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    Replies
    1. While it is a good idea if it is running through Bitterne it would turn down Butts Road/Botley Road in Sholing it then would have to go along Portsmouth Road and Hamble Labne to get to Tesco.
      Whereas if it is the route via Woolston the bus would turn up Butts Road/Botley Road and go via Bursledon Road and Hamble Lane which would be a shorter extension.

      Also I reckon the 5 to Bassett Green to Sholing will go Via Woolston much like the old 11/11A route from about 4 years ago but will loop round the Sholing Estate
      And I think the 9 will go to Sholing via Bitterne much like the current 11 route

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  5. I read somewhere that First and Bluestar have a kind of agreement that says that no Bluestar buses go over the Itchen bridge and likewise no Firstbuses go over Northam bridge except from routes that do not compete directly. Ex: route 9 and 11 dont compete with bs18 unlike route 10 that does compete with bs18 but uses Itchen Bridge.

    I like the idea of a bus to Tesco but it looks like it should be a Bluestar call as bitterne and thornhill are ' their area'.

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    Replies
    1. Much like Lordshill and Aldermoor is mainly a "First area" you are saying as they are mainly served by First. Possible but I think the bus companies should put routes where there is a lot of profit, so if a bus should run to Tesco Bursledon *cough* 56 on thursdays *Cough* then the bus companies should but a bid on it and whoever bids the most gets the route and then sells the route on 3 months later when the route is making a loss as hardly anyone uses it

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    2. Also I think the 11 is rather similar to BS18 it runs pretty much the same route all the way to Hinkler Road, not much competion there then, just that bluestar has a much better frequency along that stretch as well considering it is one of the major routes heading to the east of the city

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    3. @Anon 4/3/12 1245: Having worked for both, I can assure you that no such agreement exists, and First certainly wouldn't accept the notion that Bitterne and Thornhill are Bluestar's "area".

      On a more general note, with two fiercely competing operators I suspect if there was a commercial demand for a service to Bursledon Tesco someone would be doing it by now. Even if such an extension only required one additional bus, it would need to generate around an additional forty passenger journeys per hour to be viable and that seems highly unlikely to me!

      Delete
  6. I am not sure but it appears that most passengers on BS18 have Thornhill as their final destination and arguably the quickest route from city to Thornhill is BS18.

    It is in this sense that I believe First11 doesn't clash with Bs18.

    Maybe I made a mistake when I mentioned Bitterne as a BS area. As it occurs with Portswood, it appears that these areas are a free territory for both operators.

    Back to the Tesco routes not long ago First had the 16A Southampton-Hedge End that used to serve Tesco and it was poorly patronised.

    It could have been a different story if there was a bus connecting Bitterne to Tesco though.

    I also have noticed some passengers getting the 8A from Bitterne heading to the new ASDA in West End.

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  7. The 56 is being cut from start of April 2012 & doesn't go to Thornhill & Bitterne anyway. It runs from Eastleigh & Hedge End. So that's not part of the equation. Nor is the Brijan 15. That's Netley & Hamble.
    Buses from Bitterne to Tesco could simply run along the Bursledon rd like the old 78 & do a loop via Lowford taking in Tesco & then back up to Windover r'bout & back to Thornhill. It seems so strange that no such link exists. I see daily people staggering along with carrier bags from Tesco towards Thornhill Fire station. A few abandon trolley's too! Another daft thing is that when BS18's run out of service they go back to the depot via M27 & thus run up to the Windover r'bout anyway! A bit of timetable tweeking & it surely would make the service viable.
    I'd say run the First 9 up to Tesco Bursledon!

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  8. I wonder whether the Councils or the operators in the region have ever bothered to carry out an origin-destination survey?

    This would be useful instead of trying to guess where the demand is.

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  9. Why don't the bus companies confer with their drivers of old?(They know what areas were busy)!
    There are so many areas in Southampton that are not on bus routes anymore. This means that the public have to make their way god knows how far to get a bus!
    What about a Firstbus service going up/down Cobden Ave to the Big Cheese then on to Townhill Park?
    Or from Bassett to town via the RSH?
    Or up/down the Avenue,to/from the uni! Uni-Link seem to have this monoply at present!
    Better still if they can match their fares! Think of the extra income generated!!!
    Why not have forms given out on the buses and ask the public what they want!
    What do pen pushers on the 3rd floor know???

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  10. "What about a Firstbus service going up/down Cobden Ave to the Big Cheese then on to Townhill Park?"

    Why? Who wants to go from Cobden Avenue to Townhill Park? I live off Cobden Avenue and its a short 5-10 minute walk to the current 3 route or to the busy Bitterne Road bus routes or to West End Road with several bus routes.

    "Or from Bassett to town via the RSH?"

    Isn't that called a U6?

    "Or up/down the Avenue,to/from the uni! Uni-Link seem to have this monoply at present!"

    Because the students are given free passes so why would they pay to travel on another bus route?

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    1. I'm sure there would be plenty of punters who would love to have a bus passing closer to their home instead of having to walk that 5-10 minutes!
      What about the elderly? What about the weather? I hope to god whoever you are get absolutley saturated on your next 5-10 minute walk wishing your nearest bus stop was nearer!
      Anyway it's not a case of getting on a bus from Cobden Ave to townhill.......It could be from town or Portswood and stopping in Cobden Ave,or visa-versa en-route!

      Not everyone has the same given right as the students. (given this, given that)!!!
      I feel sure there will still be plenty of paying passengers wanting the quickest way to town!

      From Bassett to town at present anyone needing to go to the hospital who do not wish to travel with a busload of Students have to change in Portswood and then get a 3!

      Oh! BTW..... You must love that walk up Mousehole lane to get to West End Road lol!!!

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  11. with vosa today the 2 will be Lords Hill - Thornhill/ Town Hill Park via Shirley, Southampton, Woolston the 10 will do whats now the number 4 and a service x2 Southampton City Centre - Millbrook via Freemantle

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  12. I wonder if Xela-phobia is coming in to play here as they (Xelabus) do run 2 journeys a WEEK from Tesco Bursledon to Thornhill area paid for by Tesco. Perhaps they can do what they do re Asda in Ch.Ford & run part subsidised & part commercial journeys linking places that First & BS somehow never seem to run to directly. Tesco B'don to Bitterne maybe & then onto the General via city centre?

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  13. Wonder if the general public realise that a bus driver can is allowed to drive for up to five and a half hours without a break.
    HGV drivers are only allowed to drive for two!
    Am sure a bus drivers job takes more concentration than an HGVs

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  14. but you get breaks each time you change numbers.

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  15. "Wonder if the general public realise that a bus driver can is allowed to drive for up to five and a half hours without a break.
    HGV drivers are only allowed to drive for two!"

    Fail!!!

    Check your facts before posting drivel like this, HGV drivers drive to EU hours regs and can drive up to 4.5 hours without a break. A bus driver on LOCAL work can drive for up to 5.5 hours before a break but often don't do anything like that.

    There is a world of difference driving a HGV on a motorway for 4.5 hours without stopping and driving a local bus for 5.5 hours driving several bus routes with layover time at each end and passing through bus stations, etc where they can stop for a few minutes and relieve themselves if necessary. etc.

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  16. Ok......So I did not check my facts about HGV drivers! One thing I will say is that at least they can stop where/when they want to to relieve themselves!!!
    Alas a bus driver has to wait until he has a reasonable break where there are conveniences at their disposal!
    They have to think where they are and would it be safe to leave their bus unattended.
    Also at times they do drive the full time of their shift before allotted break, owing to traffic and other road problems!
    Yes a timetable says a 5 minute break here a 5 minute break there!
    More often than not these breaks are not feasable in Southampton owing to the present road works over the city!

    Why can't the people that work out the timetables work it that breaks can be given close to public convieniences!
    (Got to be better for the health of their drivers)!

    Also as a footnote I would like to add that you have just admitted that a bus driver can and is allowed to drive for 5.5 hours without a break of any description!!!

    You say it's not anything like that......Think about it though it can happen.......So can accidents!!!!!!!!

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  17. "Yes a timetable says a 5 minute break here a 5 minute break there!
    More often than not these breaks are not feasable in Southampton owing to the present road works over the city!"

    That would be why you see buses parked up for several minutes at terminals like Lords Hill, Townhill Park and Thornhill then :-/ Not to mention the buses that park up between trips in the city centre.

    "Why can't the people that work out the timetables work it that breaks can be given close to public convieniences!"

    That's called a staff canteen. If you suggest terminal points should be next to a public convenience then that is a bizarre proposition!

    "Also as a footnote I would like to add that you have just admitted that a bus driver can and is allowed to drive for 5.5 hours without a break of any description!!!"

    Technically by law yes they can, however most bus companies do not schedule to 5.5 hours. Certainly the largest bus company in Southampton doesn't.

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  18. To the Prat going on about bus driver driving times. Have you driven a bus, if so when? The running times I work to leave the driver with very little time on lay over, not enough time to empty the bus, check the bus, secure your cash, belonging etc... before getting to a convenience and back again to start the next trip. Changing over numbers takes about 30 seconds. Just out of interest where is this "bus station" you talk of in Southampton? Further, buses that are parked up in City Centre are for spare in case of break downs and because a driver has worked right up to his/her legal driving limit and can't take on the bus/service, or would you rather we break the law? Finally please, please, please try to drive a bus, with all the problems that entails, whilst bursting for the loo!

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  19. "Have you driven a bus, if so when?"

    Yes for 10 years and currently still do so thank you very much.

    "buses that are parked up in City Centre are for spare in case of break downs and because a driver has worked right up to his/her legal driving limit "

    You obviously work for a different company than me, we don't work beyond 4.45 and even then don't often work that long. My duty today had 3.5 hrs driving, 50 minute break then 4 hours - yes I was busy but I got chance to relieve myself when needed and stretch my legs a couple of times.

    Try driving a truck when the schedule your given allows for minimum legal breaks and 4.5hr stints motorway driving with no chance in the schedule to stop between the legal breaks!

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  20. Gentlemen (or ladies), please stop the bus bickering or get your own Forum, as this one is for positive information, not one-upmanship.

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