First City Red operates for the final time today, Saturday 18th February. The very final service they operate will be on route 2 from Millbrook, Kendal Avenue Shops at 2333 to the City Centre, terminating at Vincents Walk at 2355 and bringing to an end the history of red buses in Southampton, with a direct corporate lineage back to the very first horse-drawn trams in our city in 1879. Rather appropriately, it will be followed 12 minutes later by a Bluestar 18 running through to Thornhill.
In other news:
In Bournemouth, Yellow Coaches, part of Xelagroup, ceased operations earlier this week, so routes 18, 33 and 36 have passed back to More.
First Solent have new timetables on routes 7, 9 and 9A from 5th March, including rerouting the 9A via Nobes Avenue.
Xelabus have advised that routes X9 and X10 are due to be withdrawn on 31st March, subject to retendering by Hampshire County Council. We'll let you know as soon as HCC's future arrangements for the routes are clear.
In a similar vein, First Solent have registered the withdrawal of routes 13, 14, 18 and 22 in Portsmouth from 2nd April, pending a retendering process by Portsmouth City Council.
Well the most common prediction in these comments has come to pass, years later than expected I must say. Just hope Xelabus can survive.
ReplyDeleteStrange to describe Yellow Coaches' routes as passing "back" to More considering they only had them for less than a week before!
Yes, but it was a very strange decision to take it away from them in the first place, considering how they stepped in at very short notice. The council have learnt that you get what you pay for.
DeleteCreating a monopoly and paying more than necessary for those contracts would have been bad for everyone!
DeleteAnd yes the council did get what they paid for, Yellow Coaches provided the services for the full 6 month duration of the contract at the price agreed. I don't see a problem.
There are plenty of coach operations in that locality, so it would not create any monopoly, unless the council chose for it to. My point was that Morebus stepped in to help, but the council chose an operator that was effectively brand new and unproven, despite having an historic connection.
DeleteBefore waiting for a train to Wolverhampton today to watch AFC Bournemouth there. I saw a notice at Eastleigh Bus Station from Xelabus advising customers that the new route replacement details for the X9 and X10 will be released in March
ReplyDeleteYou championed the red buses, they went. Now you support Bournemouth. Always on the wrong team mate!
DeleteI have been supporting AFC Bournemouth for a long time even when first were around :)
DeleteWhat happened to Xelabus operting a vintage bus in Southampton on Saturday-as i didn`t see it running?
ReplyDeleteSorry "Operating".
DeleteWelcome to the Southampton monopoly. I assume the blog will run dates off when the fares will go up now ? (in the same way as the blog used to regularly suggest FirstBus should close down in Southampton). Residents of Southampton get ready for sharp fare rises (once the government fare cap has eventually finished)
ReplyDeleteSouthern Vectis charge extortionately high fares, yet that doesn’t put people off travelling by bus. In fact, the Isle of Wight has one of the most extensive and frequent bus networks in the UK. Perhaps increased fares are a good thing if the outcome is an improved quality of service.
ReplyDeleteEveryone says Southern Vectis fares are extortionate but are they actually?
DeleteQuick look around at similar places shows that Day ticket at £10 is the same as More bus and is even £2 or £3 lower than First in Dorset or Somerset. Weekly at £30 is also not very different to what others are charging.
The day I dreamed has come. No more first shenanigans…
ReplyDeleteI’d rather have a rise in prices and have a decent, reliable and broadly available network than having a demised red service bus.
Xelabus you are the next.
SV charge extortionately high fares as a good proportion of the customers are tourists and therefore they pay it.
DeleteThe weekly ticket in Southampton will be the price of a day ticket soon I would imagine.
Not sure why you would think that. Can you point to anywhere else where Go Ahead (or any other operator) charges anything even close to £10 for a day ticket in a city area?
DeleteOn all operators there is a always a big difference between city fares and rural fares. Some people don't seem to be understanding that.
Isle of Wight is not a city… it is 7x bigger than Southampton
DeleteThat's exactly what I (anon 14:17) meant. Sorry if ambiguous. Previous poster seemed to be saying that Southampton day tickets were likely to rise to rural Isle of Wight levels. My point was that that is not at all likely to happen in a city such as Southampton.
DeleteIsle of Wight is less than half the size of the West Midlands area but still only £4 for a day ticket.
ReplyDeleteYes but the West Midlands is densely urban whereas the Isle of Wight is not. The economics of city and rural services are completely different, in a rural area where much of the journey time is spent travelling among fields with no passengers getting on you need to charge each passenger more. That is the case with all operators everywhere. The Southern Vectis day ticket is a very normal price for a rural day ticket and there are plenty of operators who charge significantly more than that. Whereas in an urban area, even a huge one like the West Midlands you will not usually find a day ticket more than about £5 or £6.
DeleteWell guess this is the Bluestar fan club site!
Deletenog necessarily. You are only scaremongering because you think GSC will sharply increase prices in the region…
DeleteHas to be the case in all honesty
DeleteAs just about the only operator left in Southampton,that is likely to be the case. A new pretender has emerged, in the form of Transpora Group. They have just opened a new depot in Bournemouth area, serving some school contracts and the Saints P and R from Adanac Park. Will be interesting to see whether they start challenging More or Bluestar for extra work, as time goes by. Regarding fares, we all need to remember that a Southampton weekly was £16 back in 2004, which is still roughly the same 19 years later! Fares have been kept artificially low, due to competition. It would be no surprise to anyone, to see moderate increases at some point, but Bluestar are unlikely to go mad. The £10 weekly has always been a "promotional" fare, so I would expect that to rise before anything else.
ReplyDeleteI listened to a brilliant interview earlier, by a First manager, about how to set up a bus operation from scratch, and how complicated it is. Link here.... buzz sprout.com/2137461/12282884. Well worth a listen for budding bus experts!
Not sure how much competition Transpora will be , they dont appear to have their own vehicles, last week's home game v. Wolves was being covered by Stagecoach vehicles and their management have a less than illustrious reputation in the industry.
DeleteThey certainly have their own vehicles now, so probably a one off situation for the last match.
DeleteTranspora's depot in Poole on Sunday contained 5 buses, two ex Yellow Coaches/Buses GX09ZZU GX09ZZW, a white Olympus YN08HYW which I think is ex Wheelers, and Stagecoach liveried E400 LJ09OLG which has previously been reported running for them in Bristol. There is at least one more white Olympus and I think a third ex Yellow Buses GX09, as they need 5 buses each day for the services.
DeleteBe aware if you visit the site it's within Poole Port and the security staff will ask you to leave if you don't have permission to be there.
Correction to above LJ09OLG is ex Abellio not Stagecoach, and a fat finger typo only 4 buses were parked in the yard not 5.
DeleteTravelled on the new BS13 Sunday service and although it was the first day,the bus seemed pretty busy and picked up quite a few passengers in Merry Oak.
ReplyDeleteBluestar will be able to cross subsidise the 13 to help protect the monopoly. So they should get a good service in harefield
ReplyDeleteCross subsidies are not allowed under TC rules. They have to stand independently but get a long period of grace to do so, as the former First 1 will attest, by making alterations every few months to clear a new period of grace, thus getting round the rules.
DeleteBluestar need to split the buses up on a Sunday.The 2,20 and U1A all leave town for Portswood at twenty past and ten to the hour,the 17,18 and 19 all run together from Shirley to town at quarter past and quarter to the hour and the 16 and 18 leave together ,to and from Bitterne.
ReplyDeleteSame downtown at Bargate St with the 14 & 16 leaving within a minute of each other & sometimes the 3 as well
DeleteThis is somewhat poor. You would think with the amount of notice given these silly errors would have been noticed.
DeleteArriva to close 3 bus depots.
ReplyDeleteIt is positive that Bluestar covered almost all withdrawn routes from First, however a complete recast of the network is needed to address this issue of having 5-6 buses after each other through common section of the routes.
ReplyDeleteAlthough GSC is known by having a very stable bus network, an eventual route renumbering and/or rerouting would also remove any sort of confusion, since we currently have 4 cross-city services: 7, 17, 18, 19; as well as two intra-city route (10, 13) next to out-of-city routes (9, 11, 12, 14).
This recast might never go ahead, but I just leave my thoughts here.
In March Portsmouth City Council are offering free bus fares all day every Sunday.
ReplyDeleteNo mention of this on First Solent`s website.
DeleteAlthough I have not heard of Portsmouth City Council doing it, Stagecoach recently announced in Wales that some parts of March were fare free.
DeleteRegret, I do not have more details than that.
On other matters, are Totton now operating certain route 1 journeys following the introduction of the new routes? Saw one bus yesterday (the 1105 to Winchester, I think) operated using diagram T41.
ReplyDeleteSuspect that was just a borrowed bus, between school hours. Or a spare bus being used. Totton driver's would not know that route, in the main.
DeleteAh ok thanks.
DeleteAs for a recast of routes, I'm not sure whether a complete recast is needed (although I can see that the 14 and the 3 could be combined, e.g. one 14 per hour returns to town as a 3, increasing frequency on the inner part of the 3 to half-hourly) but better integration of times on common sections of route would be useful. However obviously it's been a tricky job just getting the new services in place at short notice, so for now I think we can cut them some slack.
ReplyDeleteWasn’t really at short notice
DeleteI guess yes. And I would like to see better integration of times, that Shirley setup on Sundays could become a 10-minutely service with the 17, 18 and 19 presumably. But just giving them a bit of a chance to 'bed in'.
DeleteThe 17 and 18 are both 15 minutely on a Sunday and do look spaced out being 7 and 8mins apart from Primark and 5 and 10mins apart from Shirley that being said the 19 is only 30minutely they should really run that 15 minutely as well on a Sunday as red 3 ran every 15mins
DeleteIt is currently not possible to interwork the 14 with a potential shortened 3 because the 14 interworks with the 13…
DeleteAnother thing I've noticed is one or two 20s displaying a destination short of Townhill Park. One displayed "Portswood" and another "Cobden Bridge". Both during Mon-Fri off-peak hours. Were they turning some buses short (suggesting the 20 has an over-tight schedule)?
ReplyDeleteCobden Bridge is the scheduled terminus of some inbound evening journeys so that may well have been a driver accidentally using the wrong destination code. Not sure about Portswood.
DeleteA bit of information about the workings of the new services which may be of interest, based on observations. On Mon-Fri the 19 is operated by red/blue 2006 double deckers (ex Go North East, I believe). The 10/13/14/15 are largely operated by "imported" 2010 blue and green single deckers. I
ReplyDeleten terms of interworking, inbound 14s tend to then form outbound 13s, while one inbound 13 per hour forms the 10, which then forms a 14.
The 20 appears to be run with existing Bluestar single-deckers (often the "Breathe" type).
The diagram/duty numbers for the 19 are E90x, for the 20 E5x, and for the 10/13/14/15 group E3x.
One 14 (the 1355 from Southampton) however appears to be regularly opeated with an existing Bluestar single-decker, and has an E5x diagram number, more normally used for 20s. Wonder if that interworks with a 20 at some point in the day.
On Saturdays a different pattern applies. The 10/13/14/15 all seem to be operated with existing Bluestar single-deckers, while the 20 is operated with double-deckers. The blue and green buses don't seem to be out and about on a Saturday. The 19, however continues to use the red-and-blue "imports".
Not sure about Sundays, I "should" have seen a couple of 20s the other week but they were both late!
The 13 and 20 are run with original Bluestar double deckers and interwork with each other on Sundays.
DeleteAh ok, I noticed that the 20 round trip on Sundays was a little over an hour, so I figured it must interwork with something otherwise it would be waiting in the city centre for almost 30 mins. As the 13 is only hourly though, presumably one of the two 20s per hour does something else.
DeleteThere is absolutely no rule for which buses run most services on Sunday. They are run by whatever will be easy to get out of the yard!
DeleteAnon @01:28-i think you are wrong as the original Bluestar buses are trotted out on Sunday.Those used on the 19 Mon to Sat would be very accessible in the depot,due to their running till late on Sat nights.
DeleteTo some extent you are correct. There are many buses that remain accessible, so the best one's are used.
DeleteA decision report for the replacement of Xelabus routes X9 and X10 has been published:
ReplyDeletehttps://democracy.hants.gov.uk/documents/s106012/Report.pdf
Going by this report, it appears that the replacement service will be numbered 49 and operate as a one-way circular service via the following route:
Bishop’s Waltham - Swanmore - Waltham Chase - Botley - Hedge End - West End - Durley - Bishop’s Waltham
What I want to know is who will be running the 49?
DeleteMost likely to be Xelabus or Stagecoach I imagine
DeleteI hope its Stagecoach
Delete49 does not sound like a Bluestar or Xela number. Certainly sounds like Stagecoach to me.
ReplyDeleteSo the Southampton-Bishops Waltham link is completely lost? How the old 52 has fallen, and fallen, and fallen through the years. In the 90s and early-mid 00s there was a 2-hourly service all the way to Petersfield, now you won't be able to reach Bishops Waltham!
ReplyDeleteBluestar could probably operate this with just one extra bus, a 2-hourly extension of the 14 to Bishops Waltham and Eastleigh.
Sadly probably not viable to do so-the X10 was supported wasn`t it?
DeleteWhy would Bluestar extend a commercial service along route of a proposed council tendered service? There’s no way it would more than pennies!
Deletex10 suffered from poor reliability of Xela. Morning trips cut for the flimsiest excuse. Sometimes two "chunks" of a service is commercial & the middle bit is not but it runsas overall it makes a slight profit. I believe the original extension of Southampton buses extending from Moorgreen to Hedge End worked like that. If HCC got their act together a more comprehensive service from B Waltham - Botley - Soton could be established & even tied in with service 28/28A Botley to Whiteley to Fareham but no due to "budget cuts" it will be some daft circular that will go nowhere & get no one on it!
DeleteI wasn't thinking of Bluestar running it commercially, but rather HCC supporting an extension of one journey on the 14 every two hours to Bishops Waltham and then on to Eastleigh. Just seems to me to be the best combination of usable service and not being too expensive (as it would just require one bus - plus there is a Bluestar depot at Eastleigh which might help). Instead it looks like we'll end up with a service which doesn't seem particularly useful.
Delete... which serves neither Southampton nor Eastleigh, thus cutting BW off from both towns.
DeleteThe 52 was operated by Marchwood Motorways
ReplyDeleteHants and Dorset
DeleteHampshire Bus.
DeleteBoth!
DeleteThe new 49 replacing the X9 and X10 will be a dead duck. The X9 and X10 provided good useful links yet with dwindling numbers you can understand why Xela have given it back to HCC!
DeleteXelabus should have handed it back a while ago,considering their reliability on the X10 was appalling .
DeleteIt was particularly bad because Xela tried to operate the route hourly with a single bus. Very ambitious to keep to schedule when you have 55 minute running time each way, not including numerous delays. Reducing the X10 to hourly allowed for much increased recovery time at either end, although this route is now interworked with the X9 at the Bishop’s Waltham end.
DeleteHow can they run it with one bus??? It takes two to run a 2 hourly service.
Delete1 bus on the x9 and the other on the X10 both routes can be done in under 2 hours there and back to Bishops Waltham
DeleteSouthampton Citybus too, for a while, in the very early 90s. But yes, mostly Marchwood Motorways (with SBL branding) in my day. Plus a few SBL-only (I believe) double-deckers for a while on Soton-BW shorts every 2 hours, I distinctly remember travelling on a VR to Bishops Waltham around Easter 1998.
DeleteAnd re the X10 schedule, yes 55 mins with a 5-min turnaround at each end sounds like a recipe for failure given one end of the route is a busy city. Did the X10 not interwork with the X9? Without looking at the timetables I'm not sure, but assumed that would be the natural way of doing it. Fairly sure Brijan did that with the 7/8.
DeleteSorry, ignore that interworking question. I see it's been answered.
DeleteMeanwhile back to the "imported" Bluestar fleet - have seen a couple of new imports in the past week in addition to the red-and-blue double deckers and green-and-blue single deckers. One all-blue single decker on the 10/13/14 (can't remember which) last Monday and today, a single decker in what looks like Southern Vectis livery, so almost all green except for Bluestar transfers, on the 14 (the 1625 from Southampton, I think). Also saw one of the green-and-blues on Saturday (which doesn't see them much), again on the 1625 14.
ReplyDeleteSo new route 49 goes to Stagecoach. Running a bus from their Botley outstation. I really can't see a major success as its not really providing a service from BW to Southampton or Eastleigh.
ReplyDeleteI expect most BW - Southampton travellers will take the 69 to Winchester and change onto a fast SWR or XC train there. For Eastleigh, the change can be made onto a no.2 bus at Fair Oak.
DeleteBtw has a route map or timetable for this new service 49 been published yet?
The new timetable is available to view now at Stagecoach Winchester`s updates page.
DeleteThe new 49 route Is destined for collapse no chance will it have passengers on it
DeleteWho will win the marwell zoo bus this year
ReplyDeleteBluestar have the Marwell bus
ReplyDeleteWhere have you seen this to?
Deletemarwell told me
DeleteXelabus sold both Volvo B7 to Go Ahead North West
ReplyDelete49h doesn't give anyone enough time to do a foodshop either.
ReplyDeleteTesco Bursledon maybe just about if you don't want to look upstairs at the clothing area
We are enthusiasts but we are not silly.
ReplyDeleteThe 49/49h is just a joke. This is not viable at all.
After 6-12 months Stagecoach will hand the contract back.
A better solution was to combine with an existent route - for example Bluestar 3 (variation 3a - after Hedge End Village direct via Botley Curdridge, Bishops Waltham and Durley and then normal route to Eastleigh); 14a - after West End via Durley, Bishops Waltham, Curdridge, Botley and then directly to Hedge End Station; 15a after Hamble to Hedge End Station).
I’m sure this would be way more attractive than the circular 49 round nowhere.
Absolutely correct it will last 6 months and then HCC will be forced to put Community Transport or Dial a Ride
DeleteOr Bluestar will take it on and incorporate it into their 14 route
DeleteIndeed, HCC funding Bluestar to extend occasional 14 journeys (say one every two hours) to Eastleigh via Bishops Waltham would have made more sense.
DeleteThe other bizarre thing is the 49 running only on Mon-Fri. Surely there would be more demand at the weekend, if the aim is to provide access to the Hedge End superstores.
DeleteConfirmed.. Bluestar have the old First depot.
ReplyDeleteSource???
DeleteThey will move on April 16th. Because it is with some notice, can we expect some timetable changes?
DeleteWhat does the future hold for Barton Park?
DeleteOne compound retained, but no workshop and no offices. H and D Trim also remaining there.
DeleteSo unilink also moves to Empress Road
DeleteBasically turning Barton Park into an outstation then
DeleteIs the plan to run the "new" services (10, 13, 14, 15, 19, 20) out of there and keep the existing services at Eastleigh? AFAIK the "new" services are self-contained - though I have noticed that one diagram (E54) does swap from the 20 over to the 14 during the day.
Delete... but of course both the 14 and 20 are new services.
DeleteI would imagine 7,16 and 18 will move to Empress Road as well
DeleteYes that would make sense. 16 and 20 seem to be operated with the same pool of buses, existing single-deckers on weekdays, existing double-deckers at the weekend. And I don't think the 7 and 16 interwork with any non-city services?
DeleteStill can't see any official source for this rumour
DeleteDrivers have been telling others about it
DeleteWhen are bluestar getting the x Oxford buses
ReplyDeleteYou are way ahead of me there. Not even heard a whisper about any ex Oxford buses coming here.
DeleteThe new buses for More in BCP can't come soon enough. There's a real hotch potch at the moment as they take on extra additional routes following the end of Xela/Yellow Coaches in the area. Lots of Salisbury Red single deckers going around the streets of Bournemouth, with the obligatory "I'm helping out" sticker on the side, while the 1a has the bluestar driver trainer bus bringing a rare set of middle doors to the area. With many of the buses on more routes still running with Unibus branding (diluting both brands) it all feels a bit more rough and ready than in Southampton where apart from a bit of red or green the bluestar brand is strong on all the buses. There is no doubt Go Ahead SC have done a great job over the last year coping with such huge expansion, but hopefully the new buses coming to the M1 and the 5 will allow more to get back to the high quality branding they usually have.
ReplyDeleteMore have announced new breezer routes and some rebranding of the breezers. Details on their website but the main changes are 70 will run open top Rockley Sands to Hengistbury Head, and 80 will run open top Alum Chine to Mudeford.
ReplyDeleteLooks like the beach breezers have a fair bit of yellow in their design...
ReplyDeleteIs any new buses coming to bluestar
ReplyDeleteNo one has made any statement about that yet, other than the borrowed buses will only be here for about 6 months, so something is being planned. Could be linked to the suitability of the new depot for electrics?
DeleteARE any new buses coming to Bluestar?
DeleteSome more general first-hand observations in Southampton regarding the new routes if they are of interest. The 0933 13 to Harefield appears to be operated by an existing Bluestar single decker (schedule E55) suggesting it might swap to the 20 later in the day. There also seems to be a schedule on the 10/13/14 involving one of the red and blue double-deckers usually on the 19 (schedule E911) which involves the 14s at 1025 and 1425 and 10 at 1313. Both these observed twice suggesting they are normal.
ReplyDelete